FFXIV's Systems Ain't That Deep, but They Could Have Been.

[Mikey_R]

Monk could, and could nicely pair it with Featherfoot to be able to hold onto debuff-stacking units for longer than anyone else (since dodges wouldn't apply the debuff stacks), iirc. ...)

No they couldn't. Monk pulled from Lancer and Marauder. Dragoon pulled from Pugilist and Marauder. The only jobs that could cross Gladiator were Warrior and Dark Knight.

Classes could pull from all, but then, as a Monk, you lost Fists of Fire and Dragon Kick.

However, it was never a viable option for Dragoon or Monk to tank as you lost more by not having a tank than trying to replace it with a DPS. We have to remember that whilst Skull Sunder did generate enmity, it was uncomboed and was only 100 potency.

However, going back to the main point, if you were to extend cross class actions to job actions, what would you actually pull? The vast majority of damage actions are ingrained into the rotation and wouldn't work outside it. You could just cross the buffs (Riddle of Fire, Lance Charge etc.) but then you are just stacking buffs. That is hardly changing your rotation or adding anything interesting.

Again, it is one thing to just say, well, they could do it/make it better, it is another thing to actually do it and do it right.

On the topic of Blue Mage, do you actually have a choice, or is there a standard set of Blue Magick for each role that everyone just copies?

As for Bozja/DR, even IF people interacted with the essence system, they used it to enhance their DPS and in general, if you went in as a role, you stayed in that role. It was only in more exceptional circumstances that you 'swapped' Have way too many healers, you agreed on who was the healer healer and who had the 2 button DPS rotation. The only other instance I had personally seen (bearing in mind I completed all of the ShB relics in the expansion, so I done a lot of DR) was when there was not a single tank in the whole instance and I tanked it as a Monk, of which I luckily had the essences to do so. Now imagine if noone had that, it would have been a dead run before we even started. Which ties nicely back to cross class and tanks not having Provoke because they didn't level Gladiator enough (Provoke was level 22 iirc, so you didn't automatically get it just by levelling it to 15, not that DRK needed to level Gladiator at all). You COULD do the dance of managing enmity without it, but that comes with it's own issues, not least of all PLD n both ARR and HW had enmity boosters in their damage rotations (however, the issues come more from information display than anything else).

There are a lot of issues that hide below the surface which is why I always say you have to think critically about what you actually want and what the pros and cons are. Do the pros outweigh the cons.

No character progression, meaningless gear progression, and no new systems..

Character progression was putting stat points into your main stat. Yay. Could it be expanded to put them into secondary stats? Sure, now they all go into crit. If you have a different idea, please share.

Gear progression, there is going to be a BiS, no matter if it is for every fight, or specific fights, or hypothetical different builds. What do you actually want to see out of gear progression?

What systems are you actually saying they should add? Taking into account how players actually interact with said systems and not necessarily how you want them to interact.

[Shurrikhan]

No they couldn't. Monk pulled from Lancer and Marauder.

Ahh, I guess I was just pulling Spiny Plume with Skull Sunder, then, when one of the two tanks just somehow could not handle that mechanic.

Classes could pull from all, but then, as a Monk, you lost Fists of Fire and Dragon Kick.

If, for whatever reason, you had to tank as a Monk, you weren't typically taking the 5% damage increase over the 10% mitigation increase anyways, and you were swapping targets too often for Dragon Kick's -10% Blunt Resistance to matter much outside of bosses, especially given that its opportunity cost was your strongest attack (after the first Bootshine buff).

It also meant you could take Convalesce, Awareness, Perfect Dodge, etc.

There are a lot of issues that hide below the surface which is why I always say you have to think critically about what you actually want and what the pros and cons are. Do the pros outweigh the cons.

Agreed. Tbf, when I heard that we were replacing Additional (Cross-class) Actions with Role Actions, I had hoped (even if not so reasonably) that they meant Cross-Role Actions.

Think of it this way: On a DPS, Diversion is purely bloat apm. During uptime, you hit it on CD. But, what if it instead gave an emergency Enmity boost, instead, for situational use? Now, it would actually do something that merely passively decreasing DPSs' enmity could not; each job would have more agency, even as core play is less bloated.

Imagine if a Physical DPS could each pick --with 2 charges shared across all these skills (despite, yes, their having varied CDs)-- any 3 actions from among, say...

• Aid (Make a downed ally healable, regaining control of their character when they reach 20% HP. Downed but Aid-ed allies receive 60% less healing. If equipped, Weakness afflicts your for 20 fewer seconds and you revive with 20% more HP.)
• Rally (Usable on self or ally. Provides target with a temporary barrier equal to half their missing HP that fades over 10 seconds and causes them to heal for 30% of their damage dealt and 20% of their healing done for 10 seconds. If equipped, your maximum HP is increased by 6%.)
• Hunter's Chance (For 15 seconds, heal for 30% of your damage dealt and heal for an additional 3% of HP per second. Additionally, your attacks afflict your victims with an aura which, while Hunter's Chance is active, causes your allies to heal for 15% of their damage dealt to your victims. If equipped, your self-healing done, except through Cross-Role actions, is increased by 20%.)
• Fend (For 4s, allies within 3y cannot be reduced to lower than your own speed and cannot be drawn in or knocked back if you cannot. Split a portion of targeted damage nearby allies would take to you as well, based on the %HP to which the attack would reduce each of you. If equipped, you take 20% less damage from directed attacks not directly targeting you.)
• Diversion (Distract the enemy, if any, and those nearby, causing a high amount of temporary Enmity (fading over 15s). For the 15 seconds thereafter, your Enmity generated is vastly increased. This bonus fades over the duration, from a 500% to 50% increase. If equipped, you stagger attacks directly targeting you, delaying 20% of their damage dealt to instead be taken over 6 seconds.)
• Cripple (Interrupts the target's current spell or special attack and afflict the target with the least diminished status effect among Stun or Bind, Heavy or Slow, Silence or Pacify. If equipped, your native stun will also interrupt, and your other movement-affecting skills have a 50% chance not to inflict diminishing returns..)

With that, they'd actually be capable of emergency action, but there'd be no cross-class progression necessary. Yes, Rally or Hunter's Chance would be damn near obligatory as a choice in most content for their free Bloodbath-esque sustain, but hey, since they're on shared charges, you at least have 1-2 free (or, more contextual) choices. And, ofc, balance of value is subject to tuning.