Frontline Kinda Sucks

[AnotherPerson]

First and second points are relevant to each other so I’ll talk for both.
It’s mostly balance and server issues, say, DRG is super tanky while dealing so much burst damage, draw ins-outs animation locks you and you can’t do much about it, some abilities defy Guard and Purify is useless in a lot of situations, the list goes on.

In my opinion nothing wrong with coordination even within meta classes/premades, and they’re actually easy to counter if you’re aware of your surroundings AND your own abilities (also having an amazing alliance by your side), but the issue is you can’t do anything for the other 23 teammates you have other than watching them getting nuked, since, most of them are there for exp, they probably won’t bother learning how to counter in such situations. one time I literally got called Toxic for saying in alliance chat “Spread when the marked DRK is approaching” because it seems to them I’m “giving orders/taking the said mode seriously”, so that says a lot i guess.

If you don’t like getting killed a lot try playing “safe” classes like Machinist, Summoner and Ninja.

As for RNG maps, the maps are bad as a whole there’s no denying that, Shatter is just depressing, at least Onsal Hakair is awesome.

It’s a shame you’re having a bad experience in Frontline to get achievements, but from my own experience, I didn’t have to grind for achievements because I unlocked most of them without even realising, i just spam frontline for fun, and I encourage you to try and enjoy it instead of thinking about it as a grind. Even if you’re a god tier FL enjoyer who knows every little detail about Frontline, you will lose a lot so you have to accept that winning and losing are inevitably random.

Pretty much this comment right here.

Don't take this the wrong way OP, but most of your problems just stem from player skill issue, and mostly just playerbase mentality issue rather than game mode issue.

There is more to the game than just coordination. Aggro, Tactics, strategy, map awareness, player skill levels, etc. Those might sound like just random words, but a lot of people never really considered how to counter stuff like DRG LB or DRK+AST combo. They just run in, get killed, and think it's OP without stopping to figure out the strengths and weaknesses of the combo.

If I really had to be honest, it's just this playerbase tends to give up and throw matches rather than play the game and use all those points I previously listed to their advantage. Some people I met even thought waiting for the purify buff to be over before applying a CC is cheating when it's just... using your brain and trying to win by not wasting your CC to make the biggest impact. Half of them just put in the bare minimum effort and then expect to win or be carried. You can't really expect much more from players in a casual game mode as they aren't categorized based on their ranking and individual mastery of their PvP job when they are queued up to FL. It's a hodgepodge of players of varying skill levels and coordination taking part of a match. Not to mention, this isn't PvE - for some reason people are stuck with the mindset that things aren't fair because they're having a tough time against opponents. Every opponent on the opposing side is a player as well and subject to the same limitations as you are. That's just how the nature of PvP works. Not everyone wins. Things naturally have a stark contrast when there's a group of players who work like a well-oiled machine as opposed to the group who are running around like headless chickens. Regardless of whether it is a premade or not, it wouldn't make a difference in the presence of people who are actively trying to win by coordinating together against people who aren't. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


I got my Frontlines mount as a solo player, fought against plenty of premades, and won plenty of times to get the mounts without ever getting close to going insane. It's definitely possible to win games even playing against premades as solo. Even with some premades, players tend to play like bots and I just change up my strategy to beat them based on what behaviors they exhibit. If they have more coordination, I just destroy it with various tactics based on how the map, alliance positioning, etc. is going on. Of course, it helps to shotcall so everyone stays on the same page as well. It's a lot of player skill issue because most players never considered those factors would make a drastic impact and I can't blame them either. PvE is literally as lifeless as it can get in terms of interacting with the enemy and the environment and that's the mindset most players have when going into PvP -- when in reality PvP has the most interactive gameplay through CC, knockbacks, and zoning/capturing point locations. PvE enemies are always going to just run up at you and start whacking away whoever seems to be the most threatening target. Considering how people would just attack the nearest target (usually tanks jobs who ran up) in PvP, I say the habit of people turning their brains off and panic guarding when things suddenly turn bad translated very well. You just have to be very proactive in creating those situations rather than passively let them happen, as in the case of PvE. You might not always win, but you can win more than you lose as long as you play your cards right and your alliance isn't intentionally throwing the game.

As for RNG, that's actually beneficial than a downside. Otherwise games will always play out exactly the same and that's super boring. It's exactly why PvE feels so dead compared to PvP.

[Themarvin]

Pretty much this comment right here.

Don't take this the wrong way OP, but most of your problems just stem from player skill issue, and mostly just playerbase mentality issue rather than game mode issue.


I got my Frontlines mount as a solo player, fought against plenty of premades, and won plenty of times to get the mounts without ever getting close to going insane. It's definitely possible to win games even playing against premades as solo. Even with some premades, players tend to play like bots and I just change up my strategy to beat them based on what behaviors they exhibit. If they have more coordination, I just destroy it with various tactics based on how the map, alliance positioning, etc. is going on. Of course, it helps to shotcall so everyone stays on the same page as well. It's a lot of player skill issue because most players never considered those factors would make a drastic impact and I can't blame them either. PvE is literally as lifeless as it can get in terms of interacting with the enemy and the environment and that's the mindset most players have when going into PvP -- when in reality PvP has the most interactive gameplay through CC, knockbacks, and zoning/capturing point locations. PvE enemies are always going to just run up at you and start whacking away whoever seems to be the most threatening target. Considering how people would just attack the nearest target (usually tanks jobs who ran up) in PvP, I say the habit of people turning their brains off and panic guarding when things suddenly turn bad translated very well. You just have to be very proactive in creating those situations rather than passively let them happen, as in the case of PvE. You might not always win, but you can win more than you lose as long as you play your cards right and your alliance isn't intentionally throwing the game.

As for RNG, that's actually beneficial than a downside. Otherwise games will always play out exactly the same and that's super boring. It's exactly why PvE feels so dead compared to PvP.

There is no skill in what they are doing with the method, it is just using the next open exploit as it is, it barely requires anything to do at all, lol don't call it skill what they are doing.

[AnotherPerson]

There is no skill in what they are doing with the method, it is just using the next open exploit as it is, it barely requires anything to do at all, lol don't call it skill what they are doing.

It's more than people mindlessly spamming skills on a guarded target that's for sure.
ASTs have to setup LB ahead of time (animation locked and ridiculously flashy, a big indicator of activation) and ensure DRK doesn't pull too far ahead or away or the LB buffed Macrocosmos won't get its full effect. The effect of AST LB reduces by 10% every 5s so they have to ensure the DRK manages to plunge and pull everyone within 5s and they have to run up in those 5s to be in 20y (midrange distance, now targetable to CC like stuns and binds, as well as RDM AoE Silence). DRK needs to ensure they don't instantly die/get cc chained to death the moment they jump and pull targets in by taking into account of lowering the chances of being hit by a Miracle of Nature or other CC (Silence/Stun) before using Salted Earth by approaching through their blind spot or getting focused fire. Ideally, they'd wait until they see those skills go off or pull a group that doesn't have a CC of that nature, but this coordination then requires AST to delay their LB and wait for DRK's ideal timing before taking an extra 2-3 seconds for the LB animation before being able to move and use Macrocosmos. In that timeframe, people can now have guarded or purified out of DRK's Salted Earth if the timing is bad. Additional delay will reduce the lethality significantly and become more easily countered (this matters the most in the beginning when everyone doesn't have BH to start snowballing).

A good DRK+AST combo would reduce that delay significantly if they coordinated and communicated ahead of time though, but that requires a lot more skill that the average FL player never considers.

[Themarvin]

It's more than people mindlessly spamming skills on a guarded target that's for sure.
ASTs have to setup LB ahead of time (animation locked and ridiculously flashy, a big indicator of activation) and ensure DRK doesn't pull too far ahead or away or the LB buffed Macrocosmos won't get its full effect. The effect of AST LB reduces by 10% every 5s so they have to ensure the DRK manages to plunge and pull everyone within 5s and they have to run up in those 5s to be in 20y (midrange distance, now targetable to CC like stuns and binds, as well as RDM AoE Silence). DRK needs to ensure they don't instantly die/get cc chained to death the moment they jump and pull targets in by taking into account of lowering the chances of being hit by a Miracle of Nature or other CC (Silence/Stun) before using Salted Earth by approaching through their blind spot or getting focused fire. Ideally, they'd wait until they see those skills go off or pull a group that doesn't have a CC of that nature, but this coordination then requires AST to delay their LB and wait for DRK's ideal timing before taking an extra 2-3 seconds for the LB animation before being able to move and use Macrocosmos. In that timeframe, people can now have guarded or purified out of DRK's Salted Earth if the timing is bad. Additional delay will reduce the lethality significantly and become more easily countered (this matters the most in the beginning when everyone doesn't have BH to start snowballing).

A good DRK+AST combo would reduce that delay significantly if they coordinated and communicated ahead of time though, but that requires a lot more skill that the average FL player never considers.

In short it takes next to no skill to do other than stacking upon the right character and that is it, its done with marks... and spamming macros in alliance chat... no it does not require and skill than to feed on others greed and will for a cheap win.

And that is all what can be said about it really, it makes the gameplay boring, it may be fun the first 3-4 times... but it goes down hill from there.

[SpritePR]

In short it takes next to no skill to do other than stacking upon the right character and that is it, its done with marks... and spamming macros in alliance chat... no it does not require and skill than to feed on others greed and will for a cheap win.

And that is all what can be said about it really, it makes the gameplay boring, it may be fun the first 3-4 times... but it goes down hill from there.

Being effective on drk does take skill. There are plenty of drks that just plunge and get insta gibbed. Just because its an effective strategy does not mean it takes no skill. You have to select the right moment to plunge and be aware of both other teams locations on the map and make sure to communicate to your team that you are going in to have any sort of effectiveness.

When I'm solo ill typically follow the drk around on either drg or sch and support them and that usually allows me to win games due to my contribution rather than just blindly killing other players or capping objectives with no BH only to get slaughtered later.

[Naizakane]

In short it takes next to no skill to do other than stacking upon the right character and that is it, its done with marks... and spamming macros in alliance chat... no it does not require and skill than to feed on others greed and will for a cheap win.

And that is all what can be said about it really, it makes the gameplay boring, it may be fun the first 3-4 times... but it goes down hill from there.

the scrubquotes x ffxiv forums collab going hard

you have a button that reduces incoming damage by 90%, if you're dying to something that apparently takes next to no skill with it off cooldown then you'd be better off playing something else

[Themarvin]

the scrubquotes x ffxiv forums collab going hard

you have a button that reduces incoming damage by 90%, if you're dying to something that apparently takes next to no skill with it off cooldown then you'd be better off playing something else

If you have not noticed, there is a LB skill that neutralizes that, it is of little use and most of the time a wasted cooldown spending it, in that situation, however one will natUrally try of course, but it is not viable in this type of gameplay.

[Naizakane]

If you have not noticed, there is a LB skill that neutralizes that, it is of little use and most of the time a wasted cooldown spending it, in that situation, however one will natUrally try of course, but it is not viable in this type of gameplay.

No, I haven't noticed, not at any point during my grind for the seal rock coat. (this is sarcasm, just in case it missed you.)

Serious answer: Yes, Contradance/Tenebrae Lemurum/Primal Scream exist. 99% of the time, however, people don't hit Guard anyway, so those LBs are little more than filler. Play something with a dash.

[Aztino]

the scrubquotes x ffxiv forums collab going hard

you have a button that reduces incoming damage by 90%, if you're dying to something that apparently takes next to no skill with it off cooldown then you'd be better off playing something else

Sounds like a skill issue to me.

[Par5ley]

DRK/AST premades don't even win most of the time I run into them, but they do make the match absolute hell to play into and unfun. Frontlines is in no means serious so it should definitely be removed in some way just to keep the gamemode fun to play. It's definitely soured almost every person I've brought into frontlines on pvp entirely and it sucks to see such an easy to do cheese ruin it for new people.