Ban Dragoon and DRK from Frontline or At least Nerf Drg's LB

[Aubrey_A]

It's wild to me that we are asking to ban these jobs from an entire mode, I thought as a community we only do that to blue mages /s

Neither of these classes should be banned by any stretch, and (to me) an unrealistic ask for SE.

You wanna know how to fix Frontlines? Here, let me tell you:


1.) Change how Limit breaks charge, don't let them charge for free just because you exist while scratching your head.
2.) Take every single action with AOE damage in this game, reduce the damage past the 5th target by -80%/-90% (including the power of DRK's pull-in) and keep actions otherwise the same, because frankly Salted Earth is only as OP as the amount of players it is allowed to suck in.
3.) Change Macrocosmos' damage to 8000, make Gravity II (non-doublecast) 12000 to keep their burst potential roughly the same, slightly increase their 5y AOE damage output over time and nerf their 15y pseudo nuke.

IMO, this is a great start to addressing some repeat scenarios in FL. It finally dawned on me how eye-watering low the skill floor is to execute some of these combos. It doesn't take a whole lot to get into the middle of a group and cast Salted Earth (although some players are getting good at shutting down DRKs specifically), just like it doesn't take a whole lot to execute a Life of the Dragon Sky Shatter/ Elusive Jump to safety, or get your Astrologin within the 20 yalm Macrocosmos radius/ 25 yalm Gravity range.

Anyhow I'll happily hear suggestions about Salted Earth.

Here's a wild one. I felt if I had just another second or two between the act of a DRK hitting plunge and the snapshot for the draw-in effect, I could more reliably access a solution to the onslaught of damage that follows. To that end, why doesn't SE swap the CC around between Salted Earth and Salt and Darkness? I would rather deal with a 10 yalm bind, followed by a 10 yalm draw-in effect with a short delay in the middle. If I'm still getting drawn in at that point, that's my skill issue.

Realistically if I'm getting killed by any of the above combos, it's a skill issue on my part. I don't think FL playing around a singular ability from a singular class is a thematically good thing.

[Cidel]

I know you can only CC one person at a time in most cases but you only need the same numbers of team mates as there are DRKs on the enemy team to share the same braincell.

Ah yes, not only is the solution herding cats, but said cats just also need to be able to perform tricks on demand.

Like really, that is a solution to briefly handling DRKs on paper, but rarely works out in practice. Despite Frontlines oftentimes being oversaturated with BRDs, MCHs, RDMs, and WHMs, most of them suck and don't know how to use their crowd control, let alone function properly to keep themselves alive and only came as ranged DPS under the misbegotten notion they would just stay out of harm's way and pew-pew all game. And even then, you manage to silence a DRK once, then what? their LB or draw-in gets postponed for an extra second, they pop purify and proceed now with CC immunity - as if the rest of your team of randos could figure out what to do in that extra second you bought them.

Honestly, the most accessible and effective counter I've seen is... running your own DRK draw-in deathball and it becomes a game of chicken. Sad but true. Of course that depends on the competency of your own DRKs. I've seen teams with 4+ DRKs where none of them coordinate anything and spend the whole game being a gimped WAR instead.

So just mark all the enemy DRKs on the game or at least the trouble ones like a premade doomstacker, communicate with your team and hope for the best.

I mean, that's Frontlines in a nutshell. Hope that your team isn't the one that has the most "I'm just here for the tomes" crowd. 90% of every game has one team that is composed majority of them and that's usually the team in distant last.

You wanna know how to fix Frontlines? Here, let me tell you:

1.) Change how Limit breaks charge, don't let them charge for free just because you exist while scratching your head.

This, and/or nerfing the rate of your LB gauge filling the higher your Battle High level is. By Battle High 5, your LB gauge should be taking at least twice as long to fill.

2.) Take every single action with AOE damage in this game, reduce the damage past the 5th target by -80%/-90% (including the power of DRK's pull-in) and keep actions otherwise the same, because frankly Salted Earth is only as OP as the amount of players it is allowed to suck in.

This as well. If not this then they need to bring back the cc resistance that SB-ShB enjoyed where once you get hit by a particular type of cc, you were immune to it for the next 5-10 seconds. That included draw-ins and knockbacks. Instead, the PvP team person in charge of looking at Frontlines once a year thought reducing cc debuff time by 25% was sufficient.

[Themarvin]

Nerf the DRK to only be able to drag in max 3 people, and only have the full effect of the first DRG LB hitting the targets 100% rest forfeited damage...

[Naizakane]

Nerf the DRK to only be able to drag in max 3 people, and only have the full effect of the first DRG LB hitting the targets 100% rest forfeited damage...

Or press guard. You may not think it's that easy, but it is. Side effects include being forced to watch other people on your team refuse to hit guard and get blown up for it.

[Themarvin]

Or press guard. You may not think it's that easy, but it is. Side effects include being forced to watch other people on your team refuse to hit guard and get blown up for it.

It does not really work like that, best solution would be to remove LB entirely after the two first upgrades, so it comes down to core skill after that, it would be a better option due to it is heavy exploited now.

[Elfidan]

Yes, guard really does work like that. You get pulled in and you immediately begin to run away and usually dodge the bind that follows. If you don't a quick guard basically zeros any follow up damage because 90% of the time the DRG(s) is(are) already in their limit break and moving into the bound crowd using the speed boost off elusive jump. If you activate guard after a DRG activates their limit break it will still be up when they land. If you're in the front and you don't have guard up maybe you need the respawn timer to think over your decisions.

[DendrielConcade]

Anyhow I'll happily hear suggestions about Salted Earth.

Thought on it, just make it more leaned into what it already does which is an empowering zone for DRK and a no go zone for others.

Biggest idea is making it where enemies do less damage to you outside of the zone while you stand in it, so something like 20%/40% or 25%/50%, keep the same 2000p DoT on enemies, maybe keep the draw-in effect still but nerf its pull range to the radius of Salted Earth itself, then on the cast of Salt and Darkness, make it where it:

1. Gives a stacking buff on the DRK for 2000p regen for 2 ticks per target hit maxing at 5 targets hit(theoretical 20k heal)
2. Gives a 3000p regen for 3 ticks, adding an extra tick for each target hit, also maxing at 5 (I have no idea how they'd code this, but like anything suggested will happen).
3. Applies Heavy to each target hit for 3s, also causing them to take more damage from the DRK themselves by maybe 10%/15% while in Salted Earth, debuff is persistent until Salted Earth ends or exiting the zone, causing said debuff to last 3s after walking out and does not reapply if reentered.
4. Purges Salted Earth, applying all the damage/regen at once to every target inside, additionally applying Heavy for 3 seconds and nullifying the use of Sprint for the duration to targets.

If 1 and 2 are to be considered, then the passive regen is removed, 3 and 4 keep it. Option 4 feels more interesting with the suggested changes at the beginning, trading a defensive option in your kit for burst damage and a debuff, or waiting on it to end to see if you can land the snare.

Mind you, numbers are always subjective, just felt like these numbers worked and if in some magical realm these were considered I'd bet they'd change.

[IvoryBadge]

From where I’m coming from (Chaos/Light)
It’s DRK, DRG, WAR and AST, Guard isn’t really helpful when you’re stunned before getting pulled, even if you survive and pop Guard after that spicy slap to the face (Sky Shatter/Eventide/Macrocosmos), the WAR will pop their LB and Guard is just gone and you’re left to get farmed by the rest. Now there are a lot of counter strategies and tactics for premades but you can’t clap with one hand, meaning as a solo player all you have to do is CC or Phalanx before it happens, or just stay away.

I’ve had some runs where premades were outclassed by good play and counter attacks but that’s kinda rare to see tbh.

As for Salted Earth ideas, remove the pull and make it a mix of Dotun and Aether Mortar, that would be cool. heavy effect for stepping in the puddle while also shielding allies in the said puddle, a little extra potency as well for Salt and Darkness. personally I don’t mind Salted Earth the way it is but the animation lock when pulled is frustrating.

[Themarvin]

Add friendly fire for it...

[Plumerian_Ariadust]

From where I’m coming from (Chaos/Light)
*snip* personally I don’t mind Salted Earth the way it is but the animation lock when pulled is frustrating.

This, it get obnoxious when the opposing alliance has 3+ DRKs. Christ, just bring back the CC resistance