Would you rather healers get more complex healing kits or more complex DPS kits?

[Renathras]

I'm always one who thinks Content and game design should just focus on the present... Old content seems to get worse the older it is with how this game works.
But saying that couldn't they just change the heal checks... I mean yeah I know it ruins the integrity of the fight and all but it's not like older fights are like how you played them when they first came out anyway.

It's more dependent on *how much* they remove as well and what abilities they remove, obviously this would require a actual look into but Idk... I think a Big company like SE could handle trying to fix the overwhelming un-needed healing kits if they tried.

Agreed.

The problem isn't just "some people are bored". It's more extensive than that. That's why merely shoving a handful of DPS buttons at people won't fix the problem. The people who ARE mollified will probably get bored again soon enough, content will still be cleared without healers, and the people who DIDN'T want more DPS buttons are still upset. It doesn't actually fix anything, it just papers over a bit of the problem, and even that, with only a subset of the playerbase. The actual problem left to fester and continue to grow.

The longer it takes to address, the worse it will get and the harder it will be to address.

[ThomasOfEger]

I dont want more complex healing, nor complex dps rota...or many buttons..
I want higher HEALING REQUIREMENTS such has:
1) Bosses deal more auto atk damage
2) Remove self healing from dps/tank
3) Raid-wide dmg happens more often
4) Random damage spikes.
5) Mech that evolve around dispelling
6) AOE DoT DMG!

Quantity doesn't mean quality.
Give us more combinations of fewer spells.
That is a way how to do it.

[Katish]

Agreed.

The problem isn't just "some people are bored". It's more extensive than that. That's why merely shoving a handful of DPS buttons at people won't fix the problem. The people who ARE mollified will probably get bored again soon enough, content will still be cleared without healers, and the people who DIDN'T want more DPS buttons are still upset. It doesn't actually fix anything, it just papers over a bit of the problem, and even that, with only a subset of the playerbase. The actual problem left to fester and continue to grow.

The longer it takes to address, the worse it will get and the harder it will be to address.

This isn't a one problem issue though, it's several problems across the board. Of course one solution won't be enough to fix that. There are several issues present and not even all of them are related to fight design (which makes it easier to address) within the role: lack of dps skills (fulfillment), healing bloat, all healing skills answering the same prompt of more healing, gear score creep, other classes that can fill the healer niche outside the healer, casters being behind other dps this expansion (so healers as a subcaster suffer), and the list goes on. A singular solution will not make everyone happy obviously, nor will it address every issue, but a work to change things will at least appease some. The real de facto is, there has been no change at all to the gameplay outside making it easier, which increases the monotony of the role without giving anything back to it. So how would you address that? I would say the real solution is to address the role's jobs at all angles. Ask the question, determine a solution.

[Aravell]

This isn't a one problem issue though, it's several problems across the board. Of course one solution won't be enough to fix that. There are several issues present and not even all of them are related to fight design (which makes it easier to address) within the role: dps skills, healing requirements, gear score creep, other classes that can fill the healer niche outside the healer, casters being behind other dps this expansion (so healers as a subcaster suffer), and the list goes on. A singular solution will not make everyone happy, but a work to change things will. There has been no change to the gameplay outside making it easier which increases the monotony of role.

Everytime I see someone say that increasing healing requirements only or adding damage buttons only is enough to fix the role, I can't help but wonder if they actually understand the root issues of the healer role. It's not exactly simple to fix after so much decay, but fixing only one aspect without touching on the rest is just as likely to make the role worse.

I believe that we need to push SE to evolve the entire role, not just cull OGCDs and call it a day or just add a DoT and call it a day, that may make people who asked for that particular change happy for a short time, but they'll eventually realise it fixes nothing. Healers as a role lost a lot going into ShB, there's not exactly a simple "one size fits all" solution.

[Katish]

Everytime I see someone say that increasing healing requirements only or adding damage buttons only is enough to fix the role, I can't help but wonder if they actually understand the root issues of the healer role. It's not exactly simple to fix after so much decay, but fixing only one aspect without touching on the rest is just as likely to make the role worse.

I believe that we need to push SE to evolve the entire role, not just cull OGCDs and call it a day or just add a DoT and call it a day, that may make people who asked for that particular change happy for a short time, but they'll eventually realise it fixes nothing. Healers as a role lost a lot going into ShB, there's not exactly a simple "one size fits all" solution.

Absolutely, fixing one issue won't solve anything. I remember seeing someone post they balance healer's based on party needs instead of their own which I was reluctant to agree with at first, but I definitely see that as a possible reason as to why the healers are so monotonous. (Afraid to make a change due to party tasking)

But I am unsure if they know that doing so takes away the fulfillment of the job, just so others can be fulfilled.

[Kyrj]

DPS kits. There really isn't anything more they can do with healing. How many instant cast OGCD heals do we need? How many fill a bar to use X spells heals do we need? A dps kit can be ignored by those who don't want to dps as a healer and gives those that do want to dps something to do outside of pressing 2 buttons.

[CommonlyRare]

I have been wanting a support class that isn't a healer since the start. I believe that post ShB there is an opportunity to be able to implement a class like that without having to rebalance the role itself. Introduce a more buff and debuff focused class, keep healing and shielding on the others mostly as is, and please don't increase their dps. I genuinely miss not being able to solo anything as a whm, but I am probably in the minority there. I like that endgame content doesn't require 2 healers anymore, experimentation and personal preference should be able to go hand in hand with optimization and I think we are in a good spot there.

[IDontPetLalas]

Absolutely, fixing one issue won't solve anything. I remember seeing someone post they balance healer's based on party needs instead of their own which I was reluctant to agree with at first, but I definitely see that as a possible reason as to why the healers are so monotonous. (Afraid to make a change due to party tasking)

But I am unsure if they know that doing so takes away the fulfillment of the job, just so others can be fulfilled.

I'm not so unsure. They don't have a dedicated healer designer, and I'm genuinely curious- usually when a new role is created, it's featured as the face of the expansion. Sometimes it's one, sometimes more than one at a time- but has it ever been a healer? Because I really doubt it, and I believe that it is because the role takes just that place in Square's minds.

[Rithy255]

Sure, let's pass that onto their healer designer to take a look at..oh wait...Yes, the healer designer that they have never hired in the past 10 year- that one?

Please, forgive me if I sound somewhat skeptical (it's not directed at you), I actually agree with you- however at the speed at which Square moves, I wouldn't expect these changes for quite a while -IF they recognized that they were needed.

Lol No worries, I know my take isn't realistic.
It feels like they keep trying to "fix" healer and tank in all the wrong ways to me (which has piled up into current design), So I doubt it too. I don't even think people are asking for much here just that their role type is functional... But I guess that's way too much to ask lol.

[ForsakenRoe]

As many others say, 'just more healing' or 'just more damage' is not going to solve much. Rather than 'increase healing required by 100%' or 'give us 5 more damage buttons in our rotation', it'd probably have more lasting power to go with say, 40% increased healing and 2-3 more damage buttons. I've long advocated for more damage buttons now, earlier, to create a foundational kit to build off of for if/when they decide to increase healing, because overhauling the entire healing requirements landscape will take time, and leaving the role to languish in it's current state with nothing but a 'yeh we are working on it' is not going to help in the short-medium term. Even if damage buttons are nothing more than a bandaid fix on a bullet wound, it's still better than no treatment at all, surely? And if it buys time to get a 'proper fix' more solidly done, better balanced, rather than a rushed job that is broken at launch and means people can't clear content (eg cannot pump enough HPS in an ultimate), then I think it should be a no-brainer to do said bandaid fix. I can see why some people would be against it though: SE might see 'ah, healers have stopped complaining for now, clearly the bandaid fix was enough to sate them' and then leave it at that, without doing the main portion of the fixing, the healing requirements changes. Now why would anyone believe that SE would half-arse a healer role change /s

I think we could stand to have more interaction between our damage and healing kits, like how Lilies give us a damage button by using our heals, I think we could have a healing button we get access to by using our damage. SGE could have done it with Kardia, but SE wussed out and gave us 'the old Embrace Macro'. Additionally, we have to consider just how much 'more healing' some are asking for. 80% of our GCDs on healing (as some are asking for here) has been discussed on the healer section of the forums. You don't even reach that in J-Waves in TEA, an Ultimate encounter. It would be like doing Harrowing Hell, but as an entire fight. It is just far too much to keep up on, not just because 'oh player cannot put out that much healing', but because having to deal with that extra damage reduces the amount of spare time available to 'recover' if something goes wrong

The other problem IMO with people advocating for 'only more healing', is that once we get competent at keeping up with the 'more healing', our reward for 'getting good' is the same droll rotation we have now. It doesn't inspire me to practise and improve as a player when that's what would be waiting for me as the 'incentive'. It's like telling tanks that 'if you get more proficient at mitigating damage effectively with your CDs, you get rewarded with extra time to press Maim/RiotBlade'. Nobody cares about Maim, everyone cares about getting extra Fell Cleaves or Primal Rends. Extra Confiteors and Holy Spirits, or Gnashing Fangs and Bloodspillers. People who ask for more DPS buttons on healers mostly ask for parity with the most basic of the tanks, WAR. Even ignoring Heavy Swing and Maim (since their only purpose really is to access Path and Eye), the comparison looks like this:

WAR / WHM

Path / Glare
Eye / Dia
3x Fell Cleave + Primal Rend / 3x Lilies + Misery
Inner Release / POM
Upheaval / Assize

Ok, but what about Infuriate? And it's interaction with Fell Cleave reducing it's CD? In fact, what is the comparison point for Fell Cleave outside of IR? What about Inner Chaos? What about Onslaught? We could compare Mythril Tempest to Holy, but what is the comparison for Decimate, the AOE gauge spender? If we were to have WHM (or any healer) having parity with WAR, it'd need like 3-4 more damage buttons. Personally, though, I don't even necessarily want full parity with WAR, I just want to take the most impactful parts and use those, to maximise engaging gameplay additions while minimizing button count additions. To that end, I'd take the idea of a 0-100 gauge, make it build via any non Lily spell, and spend it on an AOE heal that is GCD, but damage neutral, because we are a healer. Then I'd add 1 (one) 15s CD GCD (call it Banish) that is slightly stronger than Glare but builds gauge faster than Glare does, and reduce Dia down to 12s duration. We'd Dia every 5 GCDs, Banish every 6 GCDs, and Glare when we can't do either, which would look something like this (sorry for the error sounds). I think it's still 'less stuff to manage' than WAR, in terms of 'what we do for our damage GCDs'.

Also, to save on button space, Cure 1 and Medica 1 can upgrade to Cure 2 and Medica 2 at 30 and 50 respectively

I'm not so unsure. They don't have a dedicated healer designer, and I'm genuinely curious- usually when a new role is created, it's featured as the face of the expansion. Sometimes it's one, sometimes more than one at a time- but has it ever been a healer? Because I really doubt it, and I believe that it is because the role takes just that place in Square's minds.

It has never been a healer, and likely never will be. It's never been a caster either. I think they find it easier to animate a melee/tank in a trailer in such a way that gets people more excited than a caster would. Calling it now, next expansion he'll be a MCH (since Thancred is a GNB, he can't double up on that). NIN could be an option too, but dual wield right after Viper? Probably best to give it a gap. It's not like 'healer protagonist in trailer' can't work, Blizzard did a pretty good job of it IMO with Anduin in the BFA trailer. Just have the WOL as an AST, recolour the light dome in that video blue and add some stars to it, job done