How would you solve the boring "damage rotation" of the healers?

[Saraide]

If someone wants to stay bad and not dps as healer then they can (doesnt mean they should) just not use DPS buttons. At that point it doesnt matter if you have one only glare or an entire damage rotation. This is why this point about "well some healers dont want more than glare" is kinda pointless because you can just be bad and the game doesnt really try to stop you.

[LilimoLimomo]

If someone wants to stay bad and not dps as healer then they can (doesnt mean they should) just not use DPS buttons. At that point it doesnt matter if you have one only glare or an entire damage rotation. This is why this point about "well some healers dont want more than glare" is kinda pointless because you can just be bad and the game doesnt really try to stop you.

It's only pointless if you take a blind eye to the culture that is created by mechanics. As Yoshi-P himself put it (translated from Japanese):

So I totally understand that those healers that have a very high player skill level and they’ve really mastered their jobs go into these different raids or battles and when they do have some downtime between their heals they do cast more offensive spells. Some of them desire to have more technical aspects of it so they are more active and I totally understand that sentiment. But of course the basis of a healer is to heal so I think the development team and I have this thinking of getting that sense of exhilaration from doing really good heal work.

That being said I don’t think we would do any sort of dramatic addition of offensive skills moving forward. By having these offensive abilities some players, like new healers, might feel pressured like “oh do I have to have good DPS while I’m healing?” or some players might be aggressive like “oh hey you have an offensive skill in your kit, why don’t you use it?” and I don’t think that’s optimal either.

He's right.

[ty_taurus]

It's only pointless if you take a blind eye to the culture that is created by mechanics. As Yoshi-P himself put it (translated from Japanese):

So I totally understand that those healers that have a very high player skill level and they’ve really mastered their jobs go into these different raids or battles and when they do have some downtime between their heals they do cast more offensive spells. Some of them desire to have more technical aspects of it so they are more active and I totally understand that sentiment. But of course the basis of a healer is to heal so I think the development team and I have this thinking of getting that sense of exhilaration from doing really good heal work.

That being said I don’t think we would do any sort of dramatic addition of offensive skills moving forward. By having these offensive abilities some players, like new healers, might feel pressured like “oh do I have to have good DPS while I’m healing?” or some players might be aggressive like “oh hey you have an offensive skill in your kit, why don’t you use it?” and I don’t think that’s optimal either.

He's right.

The basis of a tank is to defend, so why is it that tanks continue to get new attacks every expansion? Why aren't we expanding on their ability to control aggro and defend against attacks rather than adding Blade of Faith/Truth/Valor? Why does Dark Knight get Shadowbringer and Salt and Darkness, but White Mage get's Aquaveil and Liturgy of the Mouthful? What about all the new tanks that might feel pressured to do good DPS while tanking? What if someone yells at a Gunbreaker for misaligning their No Mercy?

Sure, tanks need some attacks to be able to solo, but why isn't Paladin's DPS library just Royal Authority as a spammable attack, Goring Blade as a 30 second DoT, Holy Circle as an AoE, and Confiteor as a DPS refund for using some GCD defensive cooldown? Why does a Paladin need more than that when they aren't a DPS? Why do they continue to get new attacks expansion after expansion, but I'm not allowed to have a Gunbreaker-level DPS kit on Sage, the healer who was marketed as a DPS-oriented healer?

[RitsukoSonoda]

The basis of a tank is to defend, so why is it that tanks continue to get new attacks every expansion? Why aren't we expanding on their ability to control aggro and defend against attacks rather than adding Blade of Faith/Truth/Valor? Why does Dark Knight get Shadowbringer and Salt and Darkness, but White Mage get's Aquaveil and Liturgy of the Mouthful? What about all the new tanks that might feel pressured to do good DPS while tanking? What if someone yells at a Gunbreaker for misaligning their No Mercy?

Sure, tanks need some attacks to be able to solo, but why isn't Paladin's DPS library just Royal Authority as a spammable attack, Goring Blade as a 30 second DoT, Holy Circle as an AoE, and Confiteor as a DPS refund for using some GCD defensive cooldown? Why does a Paladin need more than that when they aren't a DPS? Why do they continue to get new attacks expansion after expansion, but I'm not allowed to have a Gunbreaker-level DPS kit on Sage, the healer who was marketed as a DPS-oriented healer?

Tanks in this game are essentially just a melee DPS that exchanges some damage potency to gain increased durability and enmity generation. The devs have already overtuned the enmity generation to the point it's become a braindead process. Healer however is a role that normally should be adapting and reacting to changing circumstances during combat. Hence it's lack of any sort of proper rotation for healing or damage output. The issue is everything that has been done for the sake of "accessibility" which has created a situation where a healer often feels unnecessary unless playing with extremely bad players.

[ty_taurus]

Tanks in this game are essentially just a melee DPS that exchanges some damage potency to gain increased durability and enmity generation. The devs have already overtuned the enmity generation to the point it's become a braindead process. Healer however is a role that normally should be adapting and reacting to changing circumstances during combat. Hence it's lack of any sort of proper rotation for healing or damage output. The issue is everything that has been done for the sake of "accessibility" which has created a situation where a healer often feels unnecessary unless playing with extremely bad players.

All I'm hearing are excuses. So basically, there is no good reason for tanks to continue getting more and more DPS variety while healers don't, for tanks to have free speech to ask for new DPS attacks while healers get kicked in the balls every time we bring up wanting a few extra attack spells to make downtime less brain-rotting, or for tanks to not have the same miserably shallow DPS options in favor of an egregious amount of defensive cooldowns they don't need.

[LilimoLimomo]

All I'm hearing are excuses. So basically, there is no good reason for tanks to continue getting more and more DPS variety while healers don't, for tanks to have free speech to ask for new DPS attacks while healers get kicked in the balls every time we bring up wanting a few extra attack spells to make downtime less brain-rotting, or for tanks to not have the same miserably shallow DPS options in favor of an egregious amount of defensive cooldowns they don't need.

This is silly and reductive. Anyone who plays a class can ask for whatever they want. And anyone else is free to disagree and ask for something else. You're not being robbed of your free speech just because some people on a forum disagree with you.

[RitsukoSonoda]

All I'm hearing are excuses. So basically, there is no good reason for tanks to continue getting more and more DPS variety while healers don't, for tanks to have free speech to ask for new DPS attacks while healers get kicked in the balls every time we bring up wanting a few extra attack spells to make downtime less brain-rotting, or for tanks to not have the same miserably shallow DPS options in favor of an egregious amount of defensive cooldowns they don't need.

No, you're just calling it an excuse because you are too short sighted to see the actual issues with the healer role and because you cannot formulate a proper counter argument you resort to attempting to discredit valid points brought against you. The reason the healer role discussions on this forum rarely go anywhere is because people like you only look at 1 piece of the puzzle then assume you know what the whole picture is. Healer is a role that should not have any type of rotation. The only reason people like you want a "damage rotation" is because of a compounded list of poor design choices in the overall design of all jobs and general gameplay has created a situation where the role does not play the way it should most of the time.

[IDontPetLalas]

No, you're just calling it an excuse because you are too short sighted to see the actual issues with the healer role and because you cannot formulate a proper counter argument you resort to attempting to discredit valid points brought against you. The reason the healer role discussions on this forum rarely go anywhere is because people like you only look at 1 piece of the puzzle then assume you know what the whole picture is. Healer is a role that should not have any type of rotation. The only reason people like you want a "damage rotation" is because of a compounded list of poor design choices in the overall design of all jobs and general gameplay has created a situation where the role does not play the way it should most of the time.

I believe that the word "rotation" is being over used here. Most (if not all) people here don't want to enforce a rigid type 1, 2, 3 combo on healers. They want DPS options. It could be procs, or actions that wouldn't break a combo.

Irrespective of the design, it is fundamental to healer gameplay that a healer makes judgement calls as to whether it is appropriate to heal or DPS in a given situation. A game designer should not remove that choice from the player. If the designer wants to, they can make the choice obvious, but Square has really underestimated their healers.

[ty_taurus]

No, you're just calling it an excuse because you are too short sighted to see the actual issues with the healer role and because you cannot formulate a proper counter argument you resort to attempting to discredit valid points brought against you. The reason the healer role discussions on this forum rarely go anywhere is because people like you only look at 1 piece of the puzzle then assume you know what the whole picture is. Healer is a role that should not have any type of rotation. The only reason people like you want a "damage rotation" is because of a compounded list of poor design choices in the overall design of all jobs and general gameplay has created a situation where the role does not play the way it should most of the time.

Yeah yeah yeah. Just make more heal. DPS Bad! If a healer wants to DPS, they should play a DPS job, unless we're talking about tanks, they can have more DPS every expansion because they're not yucky healers. You don't think I deserve to enjoy the game. If only I had the ability to open my third eye and see the grand design that you see, then perhaps my dum dum DPS that thinks he's a healer brain could be happy.

We get it.

[Saraide]

It's only pointless if you take a blind eye to the culture that is created by mechanics. As Yoshi-P himself put it (translated from Japanese):

So I totally understand that those healers that have a very high player skill level and they’ve really mastered their jobs go into these different raids or battles and when they do have some downtime between their heals they do cast more offensive spells. Some of them desire to have more technical aspects of it so they are more active and I totally understand that sentiment. But of course the basis of a healer is to heal so I think the development team and I have this thinking of getting that sense of exhilaration from doing really good heal work.

That being said I don’t think we would do any sort of dramatic addition of offensive skills moving forward. By having these offensive abilities some players, like new healers, might feel pressured like “oh do I have to have good DPS while I’m healing?” or some players might be aggressive like “oh hey you have an offensive skill in your kit, why don’t you use it?” and I don’t think that’s optimal either.

He's right.

He isnt right. The average DF experience proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Many dps players also do not use their full kit. They still exist and will continue to exist. They are not bullied out of the game. Many healers in your average DF experience also do not frequently use their singular damage button. His logic should apply here already but it doesnt.