Most Important Dawntrail Change to Keep me in FFXIV

[Eraden]

Mao been chattings with folks abouts this. Mao by no means any expert on this matter but seems to Mao that problem lies less with healers than it does with tanks and fight designs. Tanks nots taking enough ouchies for healers to be busy. Mao nots talkings about needing more tank busters. Mao talkings about making tanks little bits less damage resistant and for more steady streams damage added along with more occasional mid-sized bursts. Mights help healers be more engaged? Unless of course healers WANT to be DPS. That another issue.

[ty_taurus]

Mao been chattings with folks abouts this. Mao by no means any expert on this matter but seems to Mao that problem lies less with healers than it does with tanks and fight designs. Tanks nots taking enough ouchies for healers to be busy. Mao nots talkings about needing more tank busters. Mao talkings about making tanks little bits less damage resistant and for more steady streams damage added along with more occasional mid-sized bursts. Mights help healers be more engaged? Unless of course healers WANT to be DPS. That another issue.

I really don't understand why healers wanting more than the absolute bare minimum of DPS abilities gets criticized as 'healers wanting to be DPS' when we don't treat tanks that way at all. Tanks not only have considerably more DPS options than 1 filler, 1 DoT, and 1 AoE, but they continue to get new attacks every expansion. While the tank role does get described as being a blue DPS role, it has more to do with the loss of aggro management and boss positioning. No one who asks for a new attack of some sort on a tank gets criticized for just wanting to be a DPS, so why do we keep doing it to healers?

Healers are allowed to want a modest selection of attacks to choose from when they don't need to heal and not be criticized for just wanting to be DPS.

But besides that point, there is also an issue with how infrequently healing is needed vs how bloated the healing resources have become. Personally, I think one way they could resolve this would be to convert a lot of tank self-healing into buffs that make the healer's healing stronger on them. Imagine if Warrior's Equilibrium, instead of granting them a flat HP value, increased the amount of HP they recover from healing actions. This allows them to still maintain their sustain while empowering the healer player to act upon that rather than do their job for them. Expand that to a larger scale and that could help the healing side of healers a little more. But realistically, we're never going to see enough outgoing damage across all forms of difficulty to make healers heal more than they attack without facing some serious difficulty spikes that may have nasty consequences on this game's relatively relaxed community of players.

[NanaWiloh]

That last part about a healer rework. All I will say is you got a better chance of winning the lottery then seeing the devs scrap whatever changes they have made for healers in Dawntrail. Its not said often enough but asking or demanding changes this late into a upcoming expansions developement is more or less pointless. Better odds of seeing it happen after Dawntrail.

[Eraden]

I really don't understand why healers wanting more than the absolute bare minimum of DPS abilities gets criticized as 'healers wanting to be DPS' when we don't treat tanks that way at all. Tanks not only have considerably more DPS options than 1 filler, 1 DoT, and 1 AoE, but they continue to get new attacks every expansion. While the tank role does get described as being a blue DPS role, it has more to do with the loss of aggro management and boss positioning. No one who asks for a new attack of some sort on a tank gets criticized for just wanting to be a DPS, so why do we keep doing it to healers?

Healers are allowed to want a modest selection of attacks to choose from when they don't need to heal and not be criticized for just wanting to be DPS.

But besides that point, there is also an issue with how infrequently healing is needed vs how bloated the healing resources have become. Personally, I think one way they could resolve this would be to convert a lot of tank self-healing into buffs that make the healer's healing stronger on them. Imagine if Warrior's Equilibrium, instead of granting them a flat HP value, increased the amount of HP they recover from healing actions. This allows them to still maintain their sustain while empowering the healer player to act upon that rather than do their job for them. Expand that to a larger scale and that could help the healing side of healers a little more. But realistically, we're never going to see enough outgoing damage across all forms of difficulty to make healers heal more than they attack without facing some serious difficulty spikes that may have nasty consequences on this game's relatively relaxed community of players.

Mao talkings about Healers mights wanting to be DPS is nots meant to be criticism. Is simply Mao recognizings that some Healers mights be wantings to change Healer design. Tanks gettings heals, dps and tankings is seperate issue that Mao already partly touched upon.

[ty_taurus]

Mao talkings about Healers mights wanting to be DPS is nots meant to be criticism. Is simply Mao recognizings that some Healers mights be wantings to change Healer design. Tanks gettings heals, dps and tankings is seperate issue that Mao already touched upon.

I'm sorry if that came across as antagonistic.

I have just seen time and time again when I or someone else wants to see healers have more than the DPS breadcrumbs we're fed be met with someone saying something like "why do you want to be a DPS?" or "Why aren't you asking for more healing instead." When the tanks, the other role that is not a DPS role, are never met with such pushback. It gets really personal for me, because it makes me feel like time and time again, people look down upon players like me for what we enjoy, and that's what I interpret when I see someone referencing what I want or the general desire to see more attack spells as "wanting to be DPS" whether that statement is being critical or not.

The last paragraph is more about your comment about what if we softened tanks. A part of the reason why we don't really spot heal tanks much at all these days is because they handle that personal healing themselves, or at least Paladin and Warrior largely do. I was just thinking that if instead of directly healing or applying barriers to themselves, they had effects that trigger off the healing received by healers instead.

[Eraden]

I'm sorry if that came across as antagonistic.

I have just seen time and time again when I or someone else wants to see healers have more than the DPS breadcrumbs we're fed be met with someone saying something like "why do you want to be a DPS?" or "Why aren't you asking for more healing instead." When the tanks, the other role that is not a DPS role, are never met with such pushback. It gets really personal for me, because it makes me feel like time and time again, people look down upon players like me for what we enjoy, and that's what I interpret when I see someone referencing what I want or the general desire to see more attack spells as "wanting to be DPS" whether that statement is being critical or not.

The last paragraph is more about your comment about what if we softened tanks. A part of the reason why we don't really spot heal tanks much at all these days is because they handle that personal healing themselves, or at least Paladin and Warrior largely do. I was just thinking that if instead of directly healing or applying barriers to themselves, they had effects that trigger off the healing received by healers instead.

A statement can be true AND not be a criticism at same time. Were healers to get more and possibly more complex damage dealings, they really WOULD enter the realm of DPS. THAT, however, is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing.

[Aravell]

But what if they become loyal and attached? Many of them may not, but some of them definitely do because I meet them in the novice network and elsewhere regularly.

It's true that some new players may end up loving the game and becoming attached. However, alienating a portion of your already dedicated playerbase by removing things they enjoy and ignoring their feedback in order to try and attract new players is never a smart business decision, it's nothing more than gambling. We also have to remember that the bad spreads faster than the good, if they keep pushing the veterans away, they'll start telling people that the game isn't great, and the potential new blood will become thinner and thinner, that's something they should be wary about.

It may be hard to keep everyone at least content, but it's definitely in their best interests that they do so.

[Absurdity]

That last part about a healer rework. All I will say is you got a better chance of winning the lottery then seeing the devs scrap whatever changes they have made for healers in Dawntrail. Its not said often enough but asking or demanding changes this late into a upcoming expansions developement is more or less pointless. Better odds of seeing it happen after Dawntrail.

Except that is also absolutely pointless because they never make major reworks during an expansion unless a job is basically unplayable and by the time we hear about the new expansion they can't make changes because everything is already set in stone.

So you wait 3 years, giving constant feedback about the atrocious state of healers (or tanks, or soon-to-be-DPS-as-well), only to have it completely ignored. During Q&A events your concerns get dismissed or simply replaced with dev-friendly "Do we get to see G'raha do cute catboy things in the next expansion uwu?"-questions, then you get probably told to wait for the job preview and when that clearly shows that nothing has changed you get told that "It's already too late for them to change anything."

Miss me with that bullshit, this cycle has been repeating for over 4 years already.

But what if they become loyal and attached? Many of them may not, but some of them definitely do because I meet them in the novice network and elsewhere regularly.

Sure, that will absolutely happen, but those new players won't stay new forever. They too will become veterans and a portion of them will also start to feel exactly the same way as we do, then they too will be told to bugger off and play something else when they don't like it and the cycle repeats.

[SweetPete]

I agree with OP. I really miss the golden years before Shadowbringers. Healers were fun and had different flavours to them. Very enjoyable. Healers are now a shell of who they use to be especially Astro and Sch. Those jobs were absolutely destroyed by the devs in Shb.

However, I am holding out hope. Yoshi P did say most jobs were gonna have entirely new rotations. Maybe healers are gonna be in that mix? I’m hopeful they are. Though, I do believe Whm and Sge should have more dps options and AST and Sch should be the more support type.

OP you’re not alone in your thoughts. Keep pressing on and keep giving feedback and maybe one day they will finally hear you. With popularity the game became simplified. Quite sad to be honest. But it is what it is.

[ty_taurus]

I agree with OP. I really miss the golden years before Shadowbringers. Healers were fun and had different flavours to them. Very enjoyable. Healers are now a shell of who they use to be especially Astro and Sch. Those jobs were absolutely destroyed by the devs in Shb.

However, I am holding out hope. Yoshi P did say most jobs were gonna have entirely new rotations. Maybe healers are gonna be in that mix? I’m hopeful they are. Though, I do believe Whm and Sge should have more dps options and AST and Sch should be the more support type.

OP you’re not alone in your thoughts. Keep pressing on and keep giving feedback and maybe one day they will finally hear you. With popularity the game became simplified. Quite sad to be honest. But it is what it is.

That's news to me. Where did he say that?