New Job: Viper

[SeverianLyonesse]

you can put a negative in front of a word to omit results . Example MMO Viper -ffxiv

World of Warcraft Hunter, Aspect of the Viper.

I still think it's such a weak concept. Like in WoW, that Hunter archetype (Beastmaster) works like GW2 Soulbeast, where they have several animal stances: Aspect of the Cheetah, Aspect of the Beast, Aspect of the Dragonhawk, Aspect of the Monkey, etc. And while I understand the need to not step on Monk's toes, it just feels so underwhelmingly unidimensional to have the whole thing just be "snek".

Again, if we hadn't already done "snek" I think better and more subtly with Sage, I wouldn't mind as much. But like, branch out devs.

[Shurrikhan]

World of Warcraft Hunter, Aspect of the Viper.

Why are we reaching this far when Kiss of the Viper was a literal FFXIV Rogue ability.

As for the name, Viper, more generally... it tends to pop up in fiction as a name for orders of assassins or enforcers of a sort that, once disturbed, are lethal in a quick and "no witnesses" sort of way (by stealth or by comprehensiveness), usually either per some sort of peasant militia, a professional guild, or a part of organized crime.

[SeverianLyonesse]

Why are we reaching this far when Kiss of the Viper was a literal FFXIV Rogue ability.

As for the name, Viper, more generally... it tends to pop up in fiction as a name for orders of assassins or enforcers of a sort that, once disturbed, are lethal in a quick and "no witnesses" sort of way (by stealth or by comprehensiveness), usually either per some sort of peasant militia, a professional guild, or a part of organized crime.

Well if it was a Rogue ability, that just makes me further wonder why they are poaching from Ninja's history and not designing something completely distinct. More to the point, I am not trying to find sources to justify it as a Rogue class when virtually nothing about it communicates "Rogue" other than technically being related to Zidane, and being an insufferable edgelord with the cringey snake motifs.

And yeah, I still am not buying it. Firstly, Viper tends to be the name of orders, not archetypal classes. I don't believe it exists as its own archetype in the fantasy lexicon, nor does its name popping up one of any number of animals make it any more or less appropriate as the indisputable best name for an assassin class. And secondly, I don't even really see much in this class as being an "Assassin", and think that those parts that could even be construed as Assassin-ish overlap too heavily with Ninja. I don't think the game needed or wanted an Assassin class when Ninja existed, and I think the most natural way to implement Zidane's job fantasy and overall vibe was as a Hunter. The design of this job screams "Hunter" to me, or "Would-Be-Hunter-If-We-Hadn't-Insisted-On-Retrodding-Ninja's-Edginess".

I'm bored by it. But you are correct about one thing. This job does feel like they carved out "Kiss of the Viper" and tried to make an entire class out of it. And that's just so flippin' boring and uninspired to me. We already have the assassin class. It was Ninja all along. We wanted a SCOUTING class, something to complement Ninja while adding *new* dimensions to scouting, not repeat it.

[Iscah]

We wanted a SCOUTING class, something to complement Ninja while adding *new* dimensions to scouting, not repeat it.

You want that. Not "we".

I don't have an opinion on the class yet, but I don't appreciate being recruited into someone else's.

[Shurrikhan]

Well if it was a Rogue ability, that just makes me further wonder why they are poaching from Ninja's history and not designing something completely distinct. More to the point, I am not trying to find sources to justify it as a Rogue class when virtually nothing about it communicates "Rogue" other than technically being related to Zidane, and being an insufferable edgelord with the cringey snake motifs.

And yeah, I still am not buying it. Firstly, Viper tends to be the name of orders, not archetypal classes.

A person of a theistic or "Holy" religious order tends to be a "Monk", "Cleric", "Adept", "Acolyte", "Paladin", "Hand", "Inquisitor", "Cavalier", "Judicar", "Priest", etc. Similarly, such orders tend to have "Shadows", "Knives", "Cloaks", "Blades", "Spiders", "Blackguards", "Fangs", "Vipers", "Scorpions", and so forth, where that "Viper" tends to have as much as contrasting place among its alternatives as a "Paladin" would among its own.

Whether you like Rogue/Assassin/Swashbuckler like classes or not, it still has archetypal weight beyond just its being a part of an order, just as a Priest and Monk have distinctions despite being frequently part of the same order and historically mostly interchangeable outside of their housing situation.

But you are correct about one thing. This job does feel like they carved out "Kiss of the Viper" and tried to make an entire class out of it.

I never made that claim, and it feels odd that you'd be making it when moments ago you weren't even aware the skill existed.

We already have the assassin class. It was Ninja all along.

By what measure? The execute skill NIN long since lost? By that warrant, throughout much of XIV, Bard had the strongest assassination skill in the game. Its execute was a 10s CD, as opposed to NIN's 40s. Its burst? DRK comes close to NIN's burst. Stealth? NIN doesn't actually use stealth. It effectively just has an out-of-combat reset for its Ninjutsu-charges. Single-target focus? NIN is no more single-target focused than any other job.

While, yes, NIN could have been made the game's "Assassin" job... it isn't particularly one at present.

We wanted a SCOUTING class, something to complement Ninja while adding *new* dimensions to scouting, not repeat it.

Agreed. Which is why I would have expected a Hunter or Wildling or Adept or Mirage or Dervish or something of those types rather than a Viper.

I will agree that it seems an odd choice to make given the opening/opportunity currently present. But, it makes little sense to be annoyed with that choice simply over its being an archetype you --in particular, not a general you-- are less familiar with. There's still archetypal weight there, and the job is still likely to be plenty cohesive. Neither of those things are its issue.

[Absurdity]

Should’ve been here in ARR when NIN was released and Syrcus Tower was filled with bottom-of-the-hate-list Uchihas.

I'm already looking forward to all the Kiritos at the bottom of the dps.

I mean, you say this. Have you ever noticed how some Jobs kind of "snap" the weapon in and out of their hand? The /draw and /bm (battle mode) commands also have two different draw animations.

There will probably always be a certain amount of "snapping" because the weapon model switches from the "weapon sheathed bone" attached to your hip/back to the "weapon drawn bone" that's attached to your hand.
The weapon is basically attached to two different fixed points depending on whether it's drawn or sheathed and making those transition perfectly is hard.

And every crafter/gatherer is a Paladin. Apparently. Despite some of them having weapons sheathe on the back instead of hip, like that one carpenter chainsaw looking one. Yet it still unsheathes like a PLD weapon.

And it looks incredibly bad when the weapon just magically teleports from their back into their hand, but they most likely don't care about making it look good on DoH/DoL jobs since they're not supposed to fight anyway.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I'm amused at all the vitriol condemning the job from a minute and a half clip of using four actions without context against a non-reactive mob. Because clearly that's enough to know the job is a write-off, rather than just being a fairly weak trailer.

[Darkpaw]

What is with the Zidane class? No class in this game has 100% been based off an existing character.

The closest we get is Gunbreaker which sure has some references to Squall and Seifer.

Dark is not the “Cloud Job”
Bard is not the “Edgar Job”
Drg is not the “Kain job”
Pld is not the “Cecil Job”

There are references to these characters sure. But the whole class wasnt built to make you feel like a certain character ffs.

Viper is not the “Zidane job” it uses a twinblade sure. That’s it. That’s the entire similarity. Nothing else in the 1 minute video teaser we got points at all to Zidane. Nothing.

Y’all stretching yourselves in knots like some kinda twisted Yogi when the fact is we have closer to no information than anything substantive.

[lennit]

if it a Ranged magical DPS i hope it a warlock , a pet that stay out and fight with you and you have dots . if it just another mage, i couldn't care less , but after seeing we now going to have 2 ninja . ok
i would go for a beasthunter or a puppet master , over another white, black, blue, pink, green, purple mage

[DarthXelion]

I'm excited for the job, been wanting a twinblade user that wields twin swords that can either be duel wielded or go into a bladestaff config. Similar to Gabranth's Glaive from FF12, or Zidane Thiefblade from FF9 (Technically only dissidia allows his thiefblade to be split in 2). Probably some references to the both of them maybe in the moveset when the time comes? since their the 2 famous FF characters who use weapons similar to it. The job is now FF14 2nd original job. Technically speaking one can argue Sage and Gunbreaker are original too.