Echoes of Vana'diel FFXI Alliance Raid

[Atelier-Bagur]

The problem I have with this approach is the fact that Iroha being sent here by Altana across dimensions and Shantotto coming on her own have already been established. It would be so weird having a version of Vana’diel like we have a version of Ivalice since we already had characters cross over from the original.

I also don’t see how our version of Ivalice isn’t jarring considering the timeline is backwards and they made a husband and wife as twins. FFXI revolves around Altana, Promathia, and their own version of Ancients and either having Vana’diel be a shard or pieces of it just randomly placed on empty sections of the map will mean entire parts of its story just aren’t possible anymore since they can’t exist in a world with Hydaelyn.

If they feel the need to do a Vana’diel raid, I’d rather it be the proper one than a knock-off since that’s the only way to do it justice. IIRC, one of the ideas behind Tanaka’s vision of 1.0 was for the two worlds to be loosely connected to each other anyway.

The reason its not jarring is because Dalmasca and the Zodiac Braves story was already established in ARR. The Imperial officer that greeted Nero in his first appearance claimed to be from Dalmasca in non-English versions (he says he's from Othard in our version) and the Zodiac Braves were used as the basis for the ARR relic weapons. Also they managed to establish the locations into Etheirys properly unlike Nier where theres no rhyme nor explanation for all the locales that we explore in those raids in Norvrandt. It doesnt matter if they altered parts of FFXII's Ivalice's history. What matters is if the lore is integrated into FFXIV world, just like how they've been doing it with 90% of this game's plot and world. It "feels" right.

Also the event quests have been all non-canon anyway, so we dont know if Iroha wandering in our world, or Shantotto warping to Etheirys is supposed to be in canon. Also there's already have been established connections of FFXI's lore into FFXIV that goes with the alt.Vana'diel take, such as the minions of Elvaan and Mithra explaining that they're potential ancestor races of the Elezen and Miqo'te and the Mhachi Black Mage Shatotto from the BLM questline (which is heavily implied to be FFXIV's version of Shantotto), or Raubahn and the Immortal Flames,Tenzen and Alzadaal's Legacy, etc etc etc They've been doing this so far with it.

Honestly, Im not gonna care too much if they connect the actual Vana'diel with Etheirys somehow (I kinda hope its not some lazy shard nonsense), as long as they do a better job at integrating it than how they tried with Nier, I'll be satisfied. I hope some of the FFXI writers are brought in for the raid story.

[Fawkes]

Ark Angels would be cool, but the new races in XIV probably feel left out if they do use'em lol.

I'm worried they'll be too small to be seen in the effects mess of XIV, so the devs will have them all merge into a big albino gorilla wearing a hat or something.

[MikkoAkure]

The reason its not jarring is because Dalmasca and the Zodiac Braves story was already established in ARR. The Imperial officer that greeted Nero in his first appearance claimed to be from Dalmasca in non-English versions (he says he's from Othard in our version) and the Zodiac Braves were used as the basis for the ARR relic weapons. Also they managed to establish the locations into Etheirys properly unlike Nier where theres no rhyme nor explanation for all the locales that we explore in those raids in Norvrandt. It doesnt matter if they altered parts of FFXII's Ivalice's history. What matters is if the lore is integrated into FFXIV world, just like how they've been doing it with 90% of this game's plot and world. It "feels" right.

Also the event quests have been all non-canon anyway, so we dont know if Iroha wandering in our world, or Shantotto warping to Etheirys is supposed to be in canon. Also there's already have been established connections of FFXI's lore into FFXIV that goes with the alt.Vana'diel take, such as the minions of Elvaan and Mithra explaining that they're potential ancestor races of the Elezen and Miqo'te and the Mhachi Black Mage Shatotto from the BLM questline (which is heavily implied to be FFXIV's version of Shantotto), or Raubahn and the Immortal Flames,Tenzen and Alzadaal's Legacy, etc etc etc They've been doing this so far with it.

Honestly, Im not gonna care too much if they connect the actual Vana'diel with Etheirys somehow (I kinda hope its not some lazy shard nonsense), as long as they do a better job at integrating it than how they tried with Nier, I'll be satisfied. I hope some of the FFXI writers are brought in for the raid story.

That example isn't a very good one considering they had to backpedal that and retcon the lore in order to fit it in since "Dalmasca" was in the wrong place and invaded at the wrong time according to the lore book, so they had to invent a new city-state of "Nhalmasque" that got confused as being Dalmasca.

Otherwise Ivalice more or less worked because we already had a bad guy empire narrative just like FFXII. FFXI's story is heavily dependent on their own gods and their own ancients. It's one thing to replace the Archadian Empire with the Garlean Empire, but replacing Altana and Promathia with Hydaelyn and Zodiark, and the Zilart with the Ascians feels like a giant disservice to both games.

I don't think they can feasibly fit Vana'diel into Etheirys anyway since there's not exactly a place to shove in three more continents and the aesthetic doesn't exactly fit with the New World. I suppose they could randomly chuck them under the cloud cover over Ilsabard, but I'd rather Ilsabard be more creative than that and there's no evil expanding empire in Vana'diel either. The story just doesn't fit exactly into FFXIV unless you want to overwrite the important parts to justify shoving it in where it doesn't have to belong.

[Atelier-Bagur]

That example isn't a very good one considering they had to backpedal that and retcon the lore in order to fit it in since "Dalmasca" was in the wrong place and invaded at the wrong time according to the lore book, so they had to invent a new city-state of "Nhalmasque" that got confused as being Dalmasca.

Otherwise Ivalice more or less worked because we already had a bad guy empire narrative just like FFXII. FFXI's story is heavily dependent on their own gods and their own ancients. It's one thing to replace the Archadian Empire with the Garlean Empire, but replacing Altana and Promathia with Hydaelyn and Zodiark, and the Zilart with the Ascians feels like a giant disservice to both games.

I don't think they can feasibly fit Vana'diel into Etheirys anyway since there's not exactly a place to shove in three more continents and the aesthetic doesn't exactly fit with the New World. I suppose they could randomly chuck them under the cloud cover over Ilsabard, but I'd rather Ilsabard be more creative than that and there's no evil expanding empire in Vana'diel either. The story just doesn't fit exactly into FFXIV unless you want to overwrite the important parts to justify shoving it in where it doesn't have to belong.

Again, you're ignoring how FFXIV does reference lore. It's never 1-to-1, they always recontextualize parts of older games and give it an alternate take; Like the Crystal Tower or Ivalice, or Venat and the Convocation, or Galuf and Krile etc. Numerous examples and bits of lore they've borrowed. FFXI isnt any different unless we're really trying to be purists (and really I understand where you're coming from). But for keeping the game world grounded, its preferable that they do what they have done with Vana'diel rather than completely alienating the world. I just seriously dont want another disaster like Nier.

[Draken]

First DPS check should a fight against Maat. Bonus points for having a mechanic that is 1v1 against your job with a specific win condition twist.

[Nestama]

The problem I have with this approach is the fact that Iroha being sent here by Altana across dimensions and Shantotto coming on her own have already been established. It would be so weird having a version of Vana’diel like we have a version of Ivalice since we already had characters cross over from the original.

S'why I'm now thinking Atamos from the Walk of Echoes could be involved in some way.

All memories and futures that are deemed "dispensable" by Atomos are devoured and deposited in this wasteland of memories and time, the world between the worlds: the Walk of Echoes. This realm beyond the Cavernous Maws contains numerous floating structures, walkways, and stairways suspended in an empty sky, with the true avatar of Atomos, a strange, fanged wormhole, situated overhead.

that or shantotto or balamor, since those two can willingly world hop.

[TaleraRistain]

I also don’t see how our version of Ivalice isn’t jarring considering the timeline is backwards and they made a husband and wife as twins.

I liked this. They didn't just give us Tactics and XII again. They changed some things around and fit things into the lore of XIV in new ways. For me, it would be boring to just somehow magically go to the actual Vana'diel, especially given where we currently are nobody can travel among all the shards at will yet and we already did the "there was a portal" for Nier. That's also been the explanation for a lot of the temporary crossovers. It would be disappointing to see that explanation used again for another crossover alliance raid.

[Nestama]

I'd be fine with it being a world-hopping situation than trying to turn a whole planet into a region, tbh.

[SannaR]

Again, you're ignoring how FFXIV does reference lore. It's never 1-to-1, they always recontextualize parts of older games and give it an alternate take; Like the Crystal Tower or Ivalice, or Venat and the Convocation, or Galuf and Krile etc. Numerous examples and bits of lore they've borrowed. FFXI isnt any different unless we're really trying to be purists (and really I understand where you're coming from). But for keeping the game world grounded, its preferable that they do what they have done with Vana'diel rather than completely alienating the world. I just seriously dont want another disaster like Nier.

That and XI has some things you fight in it that would need some explanations. Such as how in XI their Cloud of Darkness was practically the Endsinger but instead of singing a song of Oblivion and destroying all the planets it just took the Galactus route. Or how at the end of Seekers you fight and kill Hades. I stopped playing after Rhapsodies ended so I'm not knowledgeable on the most recent story that was added. I am with you in the please integrate this into XIV the same way Ivalice was and for it to make sense as to how or why we're fighting whomever or whatever we'll be fighting. As I've said before there's a lot of story beats from XI that XIV has also done in its own way that I'm having a hard time thinking of something. At the moment it feels more like it'd be something closer to what we got with Omega during the Sigma and Delta scape parts. Which was a mixed bag of success in being a positive response.

[Vyrerus]

I stopped playing after Rhapsodies ended so I'm not knowledgeable on the most recent story that was added.

I haven't finished it quite yet, because it just got completed this year and I'm slow.

But it's basically something called World Eater Eggs are hatching incredibly powerful monster from before times, and I think it winds up being called Chaos, but I haven't seen if it's an FF1 reference or not (also I haven't see the specifics on if it's actually from the egg or not, there's a lot of details I don't know about).

It has loads of Blue Magic, is related to Odin and Valhalla somehow, and it can only be killed with a Prime weapon (new and final ultimate weapons that require a laborious daily grinding session in Sortie that get in the way of armor and other upgrades because they all cost the same currency you get from Sortie. They have the appearance of old relic weapons but in black).