What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Xirean]

Odd that I can't edit on mobile. :/

There's also the Mandervillian race that travels the stars inside host bodies if you count that as a "ship". We know they did this before the Endsinger as well so they probably predate Meteion all together.

[Turtledeluxe]

All I am asking is for the Scions to hold her to the same standards they have held other characters engaging in similar actions to, sometimes very loudly

When I say morality pageant content, I mean this. It's not that serious, it's just a shorthand label for what appears to be this desire for an "I hate you" Venat option. We differ strongly on this because as I've said before....the Hydaelyn trial is very tricky given that they're dealing with this very heavy subject matter and information that has come to light yet we're dealing with this primal that had technically saved and helped us for however longer ARR has been ongoing...I think it would create a bit of dissonance, especially given that other NPCs in the game seem to operate on the idea she had no choice (which I agree with them on and it has nothing to do with wanted to defend Venat, it's because it what makes sense to me). There's nothing and no one in the game representing your take (I agree with you on this) which is why I'm unsure if the theory parts of what you are saying are actually meaningful. Also I still haven't seen you address or explain the time convergence Venat calls out, perhaps because it contradicts what you consider rigid timeline lore and introduces a new idea which is that the timelines fused at a particular point in time strictly for the story purpose of granting people memories of the Elpis visist, basically. Even in the Venat trial she says "Ah, so you journeyed to Elpis" so I genuinely cannot reconcile the idea it's "welp closed book, the elpis time loop is a part of Eorzea's real history". I'd also note more generally, that Venat coming up with a good solution or making less controlling decisions only makes her not flawed (which is boring) and makes Endwalker's themes and ideas less resonant. I don't think EW is trying to paint a picture that life is perfect, everything is fair, everyone makes the best decisions, everyone has the best intentions. It's about the total opposite for me, actually.

Regardless, I simply brought this up to counter your insistence that the WoL can’t change the timeline because of what Elidibus said.

Well, you haven't changed my mind. There was a fate destined to happen and that makes sense, because changing the events could destroy the future. Unless the Elpis visit either is or became an alternate timeline, which is what I think happened.

the Venat we’re actually told about

Venat explains her motivations in the Hydaelyn trial. You're doubling down on how problematic it is by adding it the agency element via a timeloop theory when it's still problematic on its own. She justifies it because she saw no other solution both in terms of Zodiark and in terms of dealing with Meteion. Yes, this is controlling but Zodiark and Hydaelyn are basically the gods of this world and it's a war between them. I can see how this bothers you because you're a player and you can't pick sides or makes suggestions but, meh. We defeat her, and we don't kill Meteion as some sort of dedication to her (she's never mentioned again actually) but to demonstrate that even after the problems created in Elpis mankind learned to walk on their own.

I'm not lashing out, I just don't like straw men arguments (like saying I've claimed all critics of EW are haters, when I was specifically talking about people who parrot the OP take about Venat not lifting a finger) nor am I fond of sourcing that doesn't truly set narrative boundaries. In truth XIV does not have many rigid narrative boundaries because they update things on a whim and leave ambiguous elements (such as time travel). What they've left ambiguous here means it's hard to make a definitive claim on the sequence of events. When I say one version is more frustrating I mean it's frustrating to you-- as you are clearly frustrated with Endwalker.

I also think part of what you're detecting is that I get the vibe you're trying to weave together all of these sources over the years and say "See, writers, what you're doing makes no sense" when I just think they are aware it doesn't make a ton of sense and as a result your take seems reductive and frankly, a little egotistical. They actively write new quests etc to address certain things and in that, still sometimes contradict previous story. Imo what makes this hard is the passing of time and the myriad hands on the project. The story isn't the only thing in the game like this.

Final point I've posted in the topic for 10 pages, many of you have posted in it for well over a year. I'm not trying to be insulting but as you point out, I'm already getting a bit exhausted of it. There's no way I would debate this for an extended period because the core elements of it boil down to how you read lines and how you theorize. I have no interest in continuing to link reddit post, youtube videos etc. I am not here to push people toward my view but just express my view. Most of the people who are the core base of the game are projecting when it comes to this and enjoy silencing others / cutting off thinking they do not like, whether it's a topic about story, job design, pvp, class balance, etc. If I didn't post what I posted, the topic would still be people making inappropriately declarative statements wantonly.

[Rolder50]

Odd that I can't edit on mobile. :/

There's also the Mandervillian race that travels the stars inside host bodies if you count that as a "ship". We know they did this before the Endsinger as well so they probably predate Meteion all together.

I usually don't consider anything that happens in the Manderville quests as anything even close to canon.