Square Enix should retire the relic quests with Endwalker

[VerdeLuck]

What a take

Yes technically you can make yourself a goal of doing HoH 1000 times and then start using your relic

the question is : Why ?

The grind should be in the game, not made up by the players.

If we go down that road, why even have any content at all ? After all you can make goals for yourself right ?

For example, if I run from Uldah to Northern Thanalaan, I would get an ultimate weapon.

It's all about choice right ? So can I just race there and get an ultimate weapon ? Thank you, I will be awaiting my ultimate weapon in my letterbox.

That's not even close to what I'm saying, I set my own goals in the game. I run MINE content, I use special gear combos to run content on old levels of power. The challenge is fun.
I run content blind because it's fun. I don't ask for the game to box me into something to grind, I take what exists in the game and make it my goal.

If you need the devs to lock relics behind fate grinds because you want to run 100 fates but won't do it unless it's the only way or the easiest way to earn it, that's weird. If you want to do old content but need the devs to give you an exclusive reward for doing old content, that's weird. If you need the devs to not offer alternate ways to earn relics because you have no self control and will run the shortest path through the grind every time even if you hate it that's weird.
These forums are one of the few places I've seen people complain about too many options to unlock content. You can do literally whatever you want and in that field of choices, you choose the fastest, easiest way and then get mad at Square Enix for allowing you to do that to yourself and for making it too easy.

It's like someone booting up dark souls, grabbing the most broken tools imaginable, and then being mad at the developers for not forcing them to run it with a more difficult to use build. You chose this out of a wide variety of options. It's not up to the developers to put up kiddie rails to keep you from chasing the fastest path to the end and then being mad at yourself when it's too easy. Everything at level 90 gives tomes, pick the thing you like and do that to have fun, and progress your relic.

[Stormpeaks]

That's not even close to what I'm saying, I set my own goals in the game. I run MINE content, I use special gear combos to run content on old levels of power. The challenge is fun.
I run content blind because it's fun. I don't ask for the game to box me into something to grind, I take what exists in the game and make it my goal.

If you need the devs to lock relics behind fate grinds because you want to run 100 fates but won't do it unless it's the only way or the easiest way to earn it, that's weird. If you want to do old content but need the devs to give you an exclusive reward for doing old content, that's weird. If you need the devs to not offer alternate ways to earn relics because you have no self control and will run the shortest path through the grind every time even if you hate it that's weird.
These forums are one of the few places I've seen people complain about too many options to unlock content. You can do literally whatever you want and in that field of choices, you choose the fastest, easiest way and then get mad at Square Enix for allowing you to do that to yourself and for making it too easy.

It's like someone booting up dark souls, grabbing the most broken tools imaginable, and then being mad at the developers for not forcing them to run it with a more difficult to use build. You chose this out of a wide variety of options. It's not up to the developers to put up kiddie rails to keep you from chasing the fastest path to the end and then being mad at yourself when it's too easy. Everything at level 90 gives tomes, pick the thing you like and do that to have fun, and progress your relic.

You are literally telling people they should make it difficult on themselves or grind for it for... no reason at all

That's like getting savage gear and telling yourself "I am not using it until I've done savage 10 times" Just why ?

it's absolutely ridiculous lol, stop.

[VerdeLuck]

You are literally telling people they should make it difficult on themselves or grind for it for... no reason at all

That's like getting savage gear and telling yourself "I am not using it until I've done savage 10 times" Just why ?

it's absolutely ridiculous lol, stop.

Not immediately chasing the shortest path through all content when given a choice is akin to not using gear you already have?
This is absolutely ridiculous, you seriously can't be this bad reading that this is what you took away from my post right?

[Stormpeaks]

Not immediately chasing the shortest path through all content when given a choice is akin to not using gear you already have?
This is absolutely ridiculous, you seriously can't be this bad reading that this is what you took away from my post right?

You are literally missing the point of what I am saying, you are telling people to make it difficult for themselves for absolutely 0 reason, it just makes absolutely no sense, it just doesnt, you can try and convince yourself that it does, it does not.

[VerdeLuck]

It doesn't make sense to tell people to have fun and do what's more fun instead of what's the shortest grind?
Everything contributes to the relic in this situation, you can do anything you want to progress it so why wouldn't you?

[ChrysOCE]

You are literally missing the point of what I am saying, you are telling people to make it difficult for themselves for absolutely 0 reason, it just makes absolutely no sense, it just doesnt, you can try and convince yourself that it does, it does not.

It is an absolute waste of time trying to explain. They have this perception that we only want a grind to gatekeep others from having something.

It doesn't have to be exploratory zones (god forbid we have another zone where you would have to actually interact with other people) and it doesn't have to be FATES (though, I would argue that incentivizing people to be out in the world and doing FATES together as a shared thing, would be good for the community). Nah, lets just all cap our Causality well before patch and then just hand it in on patch day for the next step in the relic. So good. So peak.

[Nebelheim]

That's not even close to what I'm saying, I set my own goals in the game. I run MINE content, I use special gear combos to run content on old levels of power. The challenge is fun.
I run content blind because it's fun. I don't ask for the game to box me into something to grind, I take what exists in the game and make it my goal.

If you need the devs to lock relics behind fate grinds because you want to run 100 fates but won't do it unless it's the only way or the easiest way to earn it, that's weird. If you want to do old content but need the devs to give you an exclusive reward for doing old content, that's weird. If you need the devs to not offer alternate ways to earn relics because you have no self control and will run the shortest path through the grind every time even if you hate it that's weird.
These forums are one of the few places I've seen people complain about too many options to unlock content. You can do literally whatever you want and in that field of choices, you choose the fastest, easiest way and then get mad at Square Enix for allowing you to do that to yourself and for making it too easy.

It's like someone booting up dark souls, grabbing the most broken tools imaginable, and then being mad at the developers for not forcing them to run it with a more difficult to use build. You chose this out of a wide variety of options. It's not up to the developers to put up kiddie rails to keep you from chasing the fastest path to the end and then being mad at yourself when it's too easy. Everything at level 90 gives tomes, pick the thing you like and do that to have fun, and progress your relic.

Your literally telling people to purposely slow down on content because there apparently going too fast when there really is only 1 path to completing the relic. What other options do we have after roulettes other then spamming eureka orthos 1000 times to artificially slowdown progress. People that want a grind don't want to gatekeep relics there is really no grind at all for these relics it's perfect for people who don't want a grind. This is the laziest relics grid for lazy people who don't want to grind other then roulettes because god forbid people do more then roulettes then afk in limsa showing off there glams. I shouldnt have to artificially halt progression or find the slowest method possible to complete it and to extend it. You seem to have recently started with endwalkers and haven't done any of the relics on release to claim they were handed to you.

[Jojoya]

I think the problem we're running into is that some players are trying to find some sort of meaning to getting a relic when other players will never consider it more than a flashy item used for glamour that requires more effort to obtain than other weapons.

Your literally telling people to purposely slow down on content because there apparently going too fast when there really is only 1 path to completing the relic.

Which is false. There are many paths to completing the relic because there are many paths to earning Causality. Not everyone does the same content. Eventually those methods all converge into making the purchase of the items from the vendor but getting there will vary from one player to the next.

I shouldn't have to artificially halt progression or find the slowest method possible to complete it and to extend it.

Yet that's exactly what you're asking SE to add for the relics - an artificially limiting way to obtain the next stage or completion of a weapon.

Why is it okay when SE artificially limits things but not okay when you choose to do it yourself?

For that matter, let's say SE does add an option so run some piece of content multiple times to get a dropped item and it takes 20 of those dropped items to purchase one of the items from the vendor that would otherwise cost 500 Causality.

Can you say in all honesty that you would choose the drop method when it's less efficient than running other content to get the Causality?

^I don't think they're a troll either. They are however displaying the very same mindset that the dev shown when they made the decision to change the fundamentals of what makes a relic weapon 'relic': it turns them into just another lackluster content that misses the point of what they're there for in the first place.

What are they there for other than another reason for players to repeat content to fill time between patches?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[…]What are they there for other than another reason for players to repeat content to fill time between patches?

I’m saying that’s what they’re there for: an optional grind to keep players engaged with an ”at your own pace”-specific goal(s) to work toward.

ARR & HW makes you run all over the realm & even includes some DoH/L hustle.
StB & ShB heavily ties its relics to specific content, with the latter having some flexibility, option wise.

Resuming your daily roulette/capping tome as usual ain’t unique to relic—that’s quite literally the laziest solution they can come up with. Outside ShB starting phase, there are no other steps that literally screams “lol pay me for your tome weapon v2.0”, let alone repeated steps after each steps.

[Jojoya]

Relics are nothing short of glamor. And as patches progress (and expansions), they get easier and easier to obtain over the year(s). Why not just make them level 1 fully flashy glamor with a quest instead of making them a long winded grind that doesn't really do anything in the long run? They went from being worth their salt when ARR released (for like 5 minutes) to practically useless when endgame became available (at least till glamor became a thing). This way devs can work on other things (and not really have to worry about the combat stats). We all just want the shiny toy and its glow. Nobody cares about it being an actual product (when tome weapons become available after 7 weeks passed, or you finish the final raid of that series)

I think part of the original idea was that giving them stats would help players still struggling to clear content before the next expansion's release get that little extra boost that would make a difference.

Otherwise, they could be just cosmetic items locked behind a long grind and it wouldn't make a difference to most players.

If they are just glamour then what’s the downside or making them long grinds to achieve a reward

The main argument against them being grindy is that people see them as catch-up gear; if they were just exclusively glam then there is no reason to not make them long time fill grinds

For some players, getting 6000 Causality is a long grind. No one is getting that many with a snap of their fingers.

It obviously isn't a long grind for those players who have the luxury of playing multiple hours every day, but they can turn it into a long grind by getting every weapon for every job.

I’m saying that’s what they’re there for: an optional grind to keep players engaged with an ”at your own pace”-specific goal(s) to work toward.

ARR & HW makes you run all over the realm & even includes some DoH/L hustle.
StB & ShB heavily ties its relics to specific content, with the latter having some flexibility, option wise.

Resuming your daily roulette/capping tome as usual ain’t unique to relic—that’s quite literally the laziest solution they can come up with. Outside ShB starting phase, there are no other steps that literally screams “lol pay me for your tome weapon v2.0”, let alone repeated steps after each steps.

But what grinds in the past were truly unique to the relics as opposed to not running the content for other reasons? Eureka is about as close as it would get though some might have still be doing it for the lore. But still players had reasons for doing it other than the relics.

Out of all the relics series we've had, only ARR had content that would be considered unique to the relic - the Chimera and Hydra trials. There was simply no reason to do either of those trials unless you were on the corresponding relic quest or helping someone else who was. There are players who don't realize those trials even exist because they've never done the relics. Even the mysterious maps, content added for the relic grind, ended up with another use (ask any hunter who blows their poetics on them trying to spawn Agrippa).

All the rest have been based around content that already existed for other reasons. Eureka and Bozja had their own reasons for existing; SE chose to also use them for the relics of their respective expansions. Eureka was very much forced in that you could not progress a relic without being in Eureka. Bozja wasn't - most players did most of the relic outside of Bozja because it was more efficient compared to fighting drop RNG until SE fixed that late in the expansion.

Many of the past relic steps screamed "pay for your upgrade with your tomestones" even if it wasn't all of them. Yet the things we would be asked to do would have also generated tomestones in addition to the drop items or the Light we were trying to collect.

All SE really did this expansion was cut down on the double dipping with the relics. We had to make a choice between using the tomestones we got for doing the content for the relic or for other uses instead of getting an item drop and having the tomestones to buy those other things.

Someone who does Savage raiding wouldn't feel the difference because they probably don't use the tomestones for anything.

Then there's someone like me who doesn't do Savage. Do I use the tomestones to complete the relic stage, do I buy catch up gear for alt jobs I rarely play, do I buy craftings materials, do I buy Rains to upgrade the crafted gear? Using the tomestones on the relic means I now have to do more content if I also need those tomestones for gear (whether crafted or purchased) for alt jobs. That starts feeling grindy indeed.

How many players were panicking because they expected to find cheap crafted gear on the marketboard when a relic patch dropped just to find prices skyrocketing because instead of buying crafting mats with tomestones, players were buying relic upgrades?

It's a good example of Your Mileage May Vary depending on what you include in your game play and what part the tomestones play in the first place.