PL Woes

[viion]

I got 50 before Esuna, and I barely use it now, just not used to using it.

OP your statement fails on so many levels, think the topics proven that tho lol

[Keyln]

I have two points.

1) Esuna is completely meaningless in levelling. One can skip by Esuna in getting CNJ up to 50, and not once in my level to 50 CNJ did I ever go, "Gee, I wish I had Esuna right now". Or even Presence of Mind. Blaming powerlevelling is completely meaningless as it's possible to get to 50 the "normal" way (grinding monsters as a party or doing leves) without ever needing either ability.

2) It isn't about the speed of levelling, but the content. In modern MMORPG design, all the level means is what level content the character can handle. It isn't getting to X level to enjoy Y content, but it's about enjoying Y content because I'm X level. It's why MMO's such as World of Warcraft and Rift are so successful.

And yes, the OP was being a douche.

[Zaaku]

And yes, the OP was being a douche.

Just curious. How would all you armchair PT leaders handle the situation? It seems like everyone makes the leader find the members, secure the teleport, explain the entire fight, take care of any replacements that need to happen, and get them back to their city of choice. All the effort, none of the gratitude. Only bitching and moaning because I put the needs of the other 6 people under my charge ahead of one person who was obviously not ready to do the event.

I hate making PT's in FFXIV because instead of garnering a modicum of respect for the extra work I do. All I get is flamed online because I didn't pat some noobs head while feeding him cotton candy and telling him everything is going to be alright. You can stay and cause another wipe. Waste mine and the others time and resources because you are entitled to PT's carrying you because you are new. /eye roll

I don't want to create a greater schism but people like yourselves would have never of made it in FFXI. I dearly wish that were the case now so I could be among those who take themselves the least bit seriously.

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[Keyln]

Just curious. How would all you armchair PT leaders handle the situation? It seems like everyone makes the leader find the members, secure the teleport, explain the entire fight, take care of any replacements that need to happen, and get them back to their city of choice. All the effort, none of the gratitude. Only bitching and moaning because I put the needs of the other 6 people under my charge ahead of one person who was obviously not ready to do the event.

Well, yeah, as the guy who's putting the putting the party together, it is sorta your responsibility to do all that. That's why you're the party leader. It's up to you to make the call, and make the decision.

I hate making PT's in FFXIV because instead of garnering a modicum of respect for the extra work I do. All I get is flamed online because I didn't pat some noobs head while feeding him cotton candy and telling him everything is going to be alright. You can stay and cause another wipe. Waste mine and the others time and resources because you are entitled to PT's carrying you because you are new. /eye roll

Here's a tip: It isn't what you did that was douchy as how you did it. You didn't want to carry a person who was clearly new to the game. Fine, I can understand that. But you didn't have to ask him if he was drunk. You didn't have to insult him as you did time and time again in this thread. You could taught him how to use those abilities, and maybe he would have done better. Or if you didn't want to do that, you could have asked him to leave and find a replacement.

As far as being flamed online, you brought that on yourself. You come in here to complain about a new player, insult him, and then blame it on something which probably wasn't the case (powerlevelling). And then you start to insult people who disagree with you. If I didn't think you were serious, I'd say you'd be trolling.

I don't want to create a greater schism but people like yourselves would have never of made it in FFXI. I dearly wish that were the case now so I could be among those who take themselves the least bit seriously.

Please. Don't presume you know anything about me or my gaming history.

[darkstarpoet1]

This doesn't sit right with me though Lux. If this is investor orientated why is it still active? Any other game that failed as hard as FFXIV did would have its funding cut and labeled a loss. Yet here wer are nearly a year later after months up months of free trial.

It seems to me that SE cannot let a flagship title go down so hard which is why they are pumping money into a dead horse. In this case wouldn't going back to basic to recoup their previous fans satisfy the reviewers so FF can keep its luster and still be obtainable? I understand investors are likely balding old men who think computers are communist machines and wonder why the secretary hasn't fetched them another drink yet but it stands to reason.

If FFXI had X number of subscribers for Y years. They tried something different with FFXIV and it failed horribly. Wouldn't they shelter under the comfort and safety of a previous success?

i can tell you why this doesn't sit right.

does anyone remember why yoshi stated they were going to be working towards 2.0 and not focusing on this game?

he stated it was because ffxiv was not supported by investors and was completely paid for by se itself. that was why they had to start charging was to try and recoup some funds while working towards a new release. the only investor ffxiv has is se and not a group of outside third party investors.

[Krausus]

Thanks... I think. I do agree with you though. A 75 Whm who didn't know Benny seems impossible. It took that players 3 solid MONTHS of playing 6 hours a day to reach his cap. I find it difficult to believe he was never called upon except that one moment at 75 to use it and only then realized it was in his abilities list. Even if that was the case that was exceedingly rare. Literally unheard of in my time in FFXI.

It is quite possible for someone who never touched the job until 40 to not have a bloody damn clue what they were doing even if they did cap. Which honestly you can go from 40-50 in 2 days anyways, so learning the job then is just plain utter ignorance. If you expect me to accept that everyone should have 2 days of 'training' after the PL rocket pocket parties and then determine if they are willing to learn how to get good then when even have levels at all?

Did you ever consider that maybe he didn't unlock any of his job abilities until after he hit 50? If you are not as dumb as a rock then yes you can easily learn how to play any class in this game efficiently enough for the easy endgame content this game has in 2 days hell it takes less time then that, there is nothing difficult about playing any class especially a WHM. This could have all been avoided had you simply said "hey WHM please use Esuna if tank gets petrified". Instead you insult him and come qq on the forums.

Hell just let us all have 50's and you can pick a class whenever you log in. Apparently that is what PLers want anyways why not oblige them and toss the whole leveling thing completely. I cannot be bothered to put more then 10 hours of effort into attaining my cap lets play some of that awesome and fun end game! Surely those 6 events will never get boring day after day after day.

Thats a pretty strong assumption, I'm pretty sure most PLers are just happy enough to get to 40 quickly and are well aware that PLing is pretty much done at 40.

I know lots of folks that are great on their jobs that where PLed and I know plenty of folks that are mediocre on their jobs that didn't. PL isn't the issue ignorance is.

[NoctisUmbra]

This thread is a prime example of how people who are subjectively against PLing are going out of their way to look for reasons why PLing hurts the game to support their perspective.

Although, the logical thing to do is find the things that are wrong/bad/annoying in game and in turn determine objectively what the cause of it is.

The fact that someone would argue that a WHM who doesn't know to use Esuna is a problem that is rooted primarily in PLing right away, which in turn implies that they would learn Esuna through grinding levels, is actually enough reason to laugh and walk away.

[Resheph]

The problem is that the current "legit" methods of leveling aren't fun/exciting/quick enough that people are encouraged to engage in the content.

The game needs something to encourage players to get out there and have fun leveling their classes without a PL. Once everyone hits 40. they move onto stronghold because at that point you can then gain exp with a level 50 in the party. There needs to be larger penalties for power leveling (no chains if mobs are claimed with a gap in levels!!!) and fun, entertaining low level content.

My suggestion?

Combine the concept of a leve with the concept of a quest and traditional "camping" parties, or the types of parties seen in stronghold. Everyone would be able to pick up this type of leve from the Grand Company. There would be tiers, just like current leves, based on the camp chosen and working up to eventually entering the Strongholds. It would have a very long/or no time limit with minimual restrictions. Easily repeatable. I would call it a "training" mission, with the story context being that the Grand Companies are trying to train recruits in "battle tactics" in preparation for the oncoming conflict with the Garlean Empire.

The leve would require players close in range to gather up at a camp, and head out into the field to "train" on monsters. I would prefer overworld monsters for this part. After either reaching a specified number of chain kills, or exp percentage gained by players in the party, the leve would end giving a performance based EXP/GC Seal kicker, with bonuses for things like having a balanced party, highest chain, number of combos exectuted, etc. These would be listed so players know they did a good job, and would be split evenly so that you don't have one class getting all the bonuses.

Then, a GC NPC would pop with a chest that could be looted. Maybe there would be some that would spawn monsters as reward boss fights, depending on the types of monsters you were killing. Rewards would be potions, food, HQ mats, materia, GC seals, and other useful/disposable/sellable items.

The main idea is to take what things are FUN about leveling without a PL and REWARD PLAYERS FOR MAKING THAT CHOICE.

[RiZi]

I'll be honest, I did not read most of the posts after the OP. I can say, however, that while PLing does have an impact on learning your class, I do not think that it's that big of deal to overcome. I really think it depends on the player and their class, versus how they got to 50. I've been in maybe 3 xp parties and have all but two classes to 50. I love the fact that I was able to get on the game and have a 50 in a day or so.

In xi you had to solo to 10 (20 if you wanted to skip the dunes), pull one or two mobs at once, and spend a long long time to get 75 on one job (before the new expansions). Did it make you better? I don't think so. I remember doing runs in Sky/Sea/Dynamis/You name it with horrible players who all got to level cap the "legitimate way" and still sucked. What it truly comes down to is how fast someone can learn to do their job the right way. I think you should cut some slack to the guy doing his first Moogle as a WHM. That's not an easy task. In our shell we expalin the fight before we go in if it is someones first try, and if we wipe we let them know what they need to focus on more. 99% of the time they pick it up and we win.

Overall I don't think PLing to 50 matters as much as how fast you learn the specifics of the fight and what your function is.

[Lux_Rayna]

he stated it was because ffxiv was not supported by investors and was completely paid for by se itself. that was why they had to start charging was to try and recoup some funds while working towards a new release. the only investor ffxiv has is se and not a group of outside third party investors.

That just means that they did not specifically use revenue generated from stock sales to fund the game. That does not mean that SE still doesn't have to show the maximum amount of profit to investors at all times. They were just prudent and decided not to use investor money towards this specific project. If they had, you better believe more ppl would have been fired by the board of directors. Regardless, what affects the company affects the investor. If SE loses money, their investors lose money, and investors dont like losing money. And Square Enix is a publicly traded company on the Japanese stock exchange.

SE had to recoup their losses because of just that. A loss for the company is a loss for the investors. Gains for the company are gains for the investors. If a project fails, especially one that enticed ppl to buy more shares of the company, it would be suicide to not do what you can to fix the mistake. Again that is why Tanaka was fired. It is also why there will be a 2.0. I never bothered to track SE's price history on the Japanese stock exchange, but I bet FFXIV's hype, release, and failure are all reflected in SE's stock charts. Investors are fickle ppl, the slightest news or bad news could have them jumping on the wagon or jumping ship.