Dark Knight needs serious help

[Amenara]

If you go back to the 6.0 (msq dungeons not the unlock ones), I actually have to try on PLD with defensives, it's a lot easier then DRK, but im still cycling my buttons properly.
If you're on the optional ones or 6.1+ then I totally agree I feel like im taking zero damage, but that's how it feels on pretty much every tank. Even on Dark knight I don't feel any dmg but If it's one of the msq dungeons I'm struggling hard and 100% dependent on my healer at all times.

I think they can actually balance PLD's and GNB's sustain for dungeons, they should make mobs hit harder and let you pull way more then 2 packs, for warrior all you'd need to do is make blood whetting not aoe as that's going to be gamebreaking in any sort of dungeon content, I don't think it's fun for healers to not heal at all in aoe.

I think the issue you would run into with the lack of AoE healing on Bloodwhetting is that it would be an inferior damage reduction CD and would have to be buffed to compensate and put it on the same level as something like Shelltron. Then again, I think the easier answer might be to just drop a lot of the self healing from all the tanks or make it more of a long CD and put the healing requirements back on the healers so we can just stop having the balance argument on it.

[Rithy255]

I think the issue you would run into with the lack of AoE healing on Bloodwhetting is that it would be an inferior damage reduction CD and would have to be buffed to compensate and put it on the same level as something like Shelltron. Then again, I think the easier answer might be to just drop a lot of the self healing from all the tanks or make it more of a long CD and put the healing requirements back on the healers so we can just stop having the balance argument on it.

it's already really good, 400 potency barrier, two 10% reductions, 400 potency healing per hit, it's already on par with sheltron/HOC without the AOE aspect. You would not run into any issues with removing the AOE healing aspect from it. Warrior is already currently the strongest tank in all forms of content anyway, I'm sure it's fine to make them more on par with other tanks in dungeon content, Honestly warrior would still be really good in dungeons just reasonable and it doesn't effect hardcore content outside niche aoe situations

Self sustain doesn't need to be removed, Tanks are already too much like "big hp melee dps" I don't think going for the "easy answer" solves anything about this game, they wanted to solve aggro management? well the easy answer was to remove it, they wanted to solve raid buffs, Make them all the same, ect. We shouldn't solve things strictly by either removing it or reducing it to amount that isn't even noticeable, I don't think we need to take more from tanks in general, we should be adding on more to tanks and giving them more utility actually.

The only OTHER sustain i'd want removed is the AOE regen of shake it off, maybe remove magic attacks from healing the PLD to put that healing somewhere else more interesting, I think it's good that tanks have support abilities and some forms of healing, The encounter design is the main issue at the end of the day, you can remove all the sustain on tanks but have dungeons and easy content barely require a healer to press any buttons still, Dark knight is a great example of that, you really don't need to heal them much in the 6.1+ dungeons, The game needs to up the damage and let tanks pull more, instead of this idea of just removing sustain from tanks.

[GoatOfWar]

I think the issue you would run into with the lack of AoE healing on Bloodwhetting is that it would be an inferior damage reduction CD and would have to be buffed to compensate and put it on the same level as something like Shelltron. Then again, I think the easier answer might be to just drop a lot of the self healing from all the tanks or make it more of a long CD and put the healing requirements back on the healers so we can just stop having the balance argument on it.

And why exactly would it be a bad thing if Warrior is worse at something than the other tanks?
You have the best invuln, sustained dps and partywide. You even get an extra cc resist. You don't want to have lower damage, you don't want inferior mitigation, utility or sustain. What ARE other tanks allowed to be better at?
Because i'm sitting here comparing Warrior to Dark knight and i can't find anything that puts my job ahead of yours, but i can find a plethora of things Warrior does better than Dark knight.

[Rithy255]

And why exactly would it be a bad thing if Warrior is worse at something than the other tanks?
You have the best invuln, sustained dps and partywide. You even get an extra cc resist. You don't want to have lower damage, you don't want inferior mitigation, utility or sustain. What ARE other tanks allowed to be better at?
Because i'm sitting here comparing Warrior to Dark knight and i can't find anything that puts my job ahead of yours, but i can find a plethora of things Warrior does better than Dark knight.

Pretty much, but it feels like if warrior isn't best at everything people seem to complain until it gets that way.

Personally I don't even agree with the recent PLD buffs (6.5), PLD was in a nice spot, they already have a lot going for them I think GNB/DRK in their current designs should be outputing slightly more DPS then war/pld, as both have really strong values outside of just damage.

But if every tank is not fulfilling the same niche someone will complain until they "fix" a tank, instead of embracing its upsides and downsides, I get that we want to also avoid 6.2 and locking out tanks But I actually do think that was a DPS check issue more then anything else personally. Despite people saying it was "balance issues" which yeah some jobs were and are unbalanced, but I don't think the devs ever intended the DPS check to be that harsh personally.

I feel bad for dark knight mains, I wish I would enjoy dark knight more as the job has a lot going for it lore wise, but I personally can't just get into the current design. It being "best dps of tanks" was one of its main upsides, but now it feels like theirs literally zero reason to play it outside of if you like the job.

[GoatOfWar]

Pretty much, but it feels like if warrior isn't best at everything people seem to complain until it gets that way.

Personally I don't even agree with the recent PLD buffs (6.5), PLD was in a nice spot, they already have a lot going for them I think GNB/DRK in their current designs should be outputing slightly more DPS then war/pld, as both have really strong values outside of just damage.

But if every tank is not fulfilling the same niche someone will complain until they "fix" a tank, instead of embracing its upsides and downsides, I get that we want to also avoid 6.2 and locking out tanks But I actually do think that was a DPS check issue more then anything else personally. Despite people saying it was "balance issues" which yeah some jobs were and are unbalanced, but I don't think the devs ever intended the DPS check to be that harsh personally.

I feel bad for dark knight mains, I wish I would enjoy dark knight more as the job has a lot going for it lore wise, but I personally can't just get into the current design. It being "best dps of tanks" was one of its main upsides, but now it feels like theirs literally zero reason to play it outside of if you like the job.

That's because streamers get their ego's hurt when another tank does 1% more damage on the parses and then they cry about it endlessly..
Then, their followers cry about it and it slowly becomes a community sentiment that only Dark knight and gunbreaker do damage.

https://youtu.be/FFK6jDpHDak

''The game is shit because warrior died'' When Warrior does EVERYTHING better than other tanks except for a 1% dps margin at the time.
When was the last time you heard someone ask a tank to swap to Dark knight over a Warrior?
I don't understand why we even have 4 different tanks when one of them gets to be the best at everything anyways. I'm just playing the incorrect job arbitrarily.
They could remove Pld Drk and Gnb and War players would still think War is bad because they don't have another tank to feel superior to in every way.

[Burmecia]

Because i'm sitting here comparing Warrior to Dark knight and i can't find anything that puts my job ahead of yours, but i can find a plethora of things Warrior does better than Dark knight.

Just solidarity note from fellow non-WAR tank. This is good point.
As PLD I was worried the rework they did to us in EW. Nothing surprising that we are now the same as WAR (but kinda lamer), just like DRK before us.
It's pretty disappointing for us both, I gotta admit.