Revelations from Patch 6.5: "Growing Light", Part 1

[Iscah]

Myths of the Realm:

So, odds Deryk will pull a G'raha (and Gaia?) and enter the MSQ at some point in future? I am not sure if I'd want that, but I wouldn't hate it if he at least showed up in a sidequest in Eorzea now and then. Or at a seasonal festival. XD In fact, he should probably show up in every season festival now, even if it's just as an npc with a chat bubble and no other dialogue.

Pretty low, I think.

G'raha only got to enter the MSQ (pre-mandatory-CT) due to the time travel factor removing the need for CT to happen first. It still works better if you've done it first, and the alternate excuse timeline is a little flimsy – "I'm doing all this to save you because I was close friends with an alternate timeline version of you" doesn't pack quite the same punch as the direct personal connection if you've done CT personally already – but ultimately a player's non-completion of it can be excused as something you (or at least other-you) will do at some point in your future that is the Exarch's past.

And I'm still not convinced that Gaia's conditional appearance here could lead to further MSQ, rather than being part of a multi-conditional side storyline.

That said, I would definitely expect Deryk to get some seasonal cameos, since we've already had things like letters or skits involving characters that are only available if you've completed certain quests, including some appearances from sidequest characters like Suzaku edging her way into that Hatching-tide quest where they all got those rabbit costumes they insist on wearing in cutscenes since.

[Alleluia]

Pretty low, I think.

G'raha only got to enter the MSQ (pre-mandatory-CT) due to the time travel factor removing the need for CT to happen first. It still works better if you've done it first, and the alternate excuse timeline is a little flimsy – "I'm doing all this to save you because I was close friends with an alternate timeline version of you" doesn't pack quite the same punch as the direct personal connection if you've done CT personally already – but ultimately a player's non-completion of it can be excused as something you (or at least other-you) will do at some point in your future that is the Exarch's past.

And I'm still not convinced that Gaia's conditional appearance here could lead to further MSQ, rather than being part of a multi-conditional side storyline.

That said, I would definitely expect Deryk to get some seasonal cameos, since we've already had things like letters or skits involving characters that are only available if you've completed certain quests, including some appearances from sidequest characters like Suzaku edging her way into that Hatching-tide quest where they all got those rabbit costumes they insist on wearing in cutscenes since.

Is there an animal costume they're missing?

Deryk will find the first opo-opo suit.

[Fenral]

Myths of the Realm:

About halfway through the raid I realized this quest series was never really about saying goodbye to the Twelve, but about saying goodbye to Eorzea. I needed a moment but the bosses wouldn't give it to me. "Easy to clear" is unfortunately not the same as having easy mechanics.

Kind of like how the Shadows of Mhach trilogy dropped a lot of FFIX references with a side of FFV, this one feels like its dropping the Final Fantasy XIII fanservice. (Maybe because of the techno-angel aesthetic, but ARR owes a lot to recycled FF XIII assets, so it's not like the game is somehow undeserving or unworthy of a shout-out or three.) The overall "help the gods kill themselves" angle is basically the big twist of XIII, but they're much nicer about it than the fal'Cie were.

I don't really see this as "Eorzean Religion is True Actually" so much as the Twelve being just a different kind of fake god than we've seen previously. Most gods in the setting are derived from an original something, the Twelve just happen to be what you get when the origin becomes the exaggeration. Holding together creation after the sundering is actually the closest we've gotten to YHWH power levels, but that's their secret true purpose, rather than what they're actively worshiped for.

Really digging Oschon's design. Feeling a lot of Wanderer favoritism in general, suddenly, and I picked that back in the 1.0 beta. Talk about a long wait for a payoff. Though now I'll have to wait more for the painting to be patched in. (Nophica enjoyers eating well, I think.) I enjoyed picking the joke option at the reveal. I think someone out there actually is reading this forum.

Deryk's final fate was both expected and not. Eternal existence is meaningless, so you might as well just say thanks for the memories and end it all doing One Last Good Thing, but if you do that, you'll make the monkey sad. Peak anti-nihilism, from the master herself.

Dalamutt mount when?

Post Myths and MSQ thoughts:

I think Deryk's off in Alpha-space now. If he comes back, it won't be to do anything major. The big thing that made G'raha stick out as a "side-content character" was precisely how his skillset and inheritance tied into the bigger Allagan picture that developed through Heavensward and Stormblood. They've been very careful not to pull that again.

The whole Eden series (Gaia included) is kind of weird as it's basically an alternate epilogue for Shadowbringers that can only take place in a very small window of time running parallel to the MSQ, and ties into the only recurring threat bigger than the Allagans. By which I mean the Ascians. Y'know. THE big bads. The only thing that makes Gaia's situation better than post-2.5 G'raha is that she was left in a place where she could literally walk in the door at any time. As she just proved.

[stenovrain]

It bugged me after 6.3 and it still bugs me now:

If the Twelve was a "system" created by Hydaelyn and they "never manifested before men," then how did Eorzeans know their true names and at least part of their background stories? Even if something happened around Mor Dhona during the 3rd astral era and some men accidentally witnessed the images of one or two gods, was it possible that they got to know the names of the Gods and their charges that accurately?
So who spread the messages of the gods to Eorzeans but not anyone else in the world? Was it Hydaelyn? If so why would she do that? Because she loved Eorzeans the best?
Also, if the Twleve was to maintain the running of the Source, then did Hydaelyn create similar systems for the shards? At least we didn't get any clue either in the First or in the 13th.

[Cleretic]

It bugged me after 6.3 and it still bugs me now:

If the Twelve was a "system" created by Hydaelyn and they "never manifested before men," then how did Eorzeans know their true names and at least part of their background stories? Even if something happened around Mor Dhona during the 3rd astral era and some men accidentally witnessed the images of one or two gods, was it possible that they got to know the names of the Gods and their charges that accurately?
So who spread the messages of the gods to Eorzeans but not anyone else in the world? Was it Hydaelyn? If so why would she do that? Because she loved Eorzeans the best?
Also, if the Twleve was to maintain the running of the Source, then did Hydaelyn create similar systems for the shards? At least we didn't get any clue either in the First or in the 13th.

I think some of this quesitoning is valid, but not all of it.

I don't think we did get their 'true names'. Consider that the Watcher is basically the same sort of thing as the Twelve but without the influence of prayer, meaning that they probably were about the same as him originally; I don't think Byregot was the Builder's 'true name', I think Byregot became his name just by cultural consensus. After all, remember that we do know Althyk and Nymeia's names, and they're not 'Althyk' and 'Nymeia'.

As for how their stories came through, remember that after the Sundering people did have some memories of the Ancient world, just... mangled and clouded. I think it makes sense that a few stories did persist, and mutated through the years. You also have the factor of the Ascians on top of Hydaelyn; it seems pretty plausible that their own recollections of these people and their shenanigans leaked over time, and lined up with those fragmented memories enough to match up. If people have faded memories of a man punching a meteor, and then both visions of Hydaelyn and the grumblings of certain shadowy figures describe Rhalgr in association with meteors, then people are gonna link those names. It's worth noting that very few of those legends actually fit very close, too; Llymlaen throwing a knife at a nameless researcher for getting too close to a fish somehow turned into her throwing a knife at specifically Oschon for seeing her naked; that's a LOT of narrative drift in that tale, they aren't very close at all to the truth.

[stenovrain]

I think some of this quesitoning is valid, but not all of it.

I don't think we did get their 'true names'. Consider that the Watcher is basically the same sort of thing as the Twelve but without the influence of prayer, meaning that they probably were about the same as him originally; I don't think Byregot was the Builder's 'true name', I think Byregot became his name just by cultural consensus. After all, remember that we do know Althyk and Nymeia's names, and they're not 'Althyk' and 'Nymeia'.

As for how their stories came through, remember that after the Sundering people did have some memories of the Ancient world, just... mangled and clouded. I think it makes sense that a few stories did persist, and mutated through the years. You also have the factor of the Ascians on top of Hydaelyn; it seems pretty plausible that their own recollections of these people and their shenanigans leaked over time, and lined up with those fragmented memories enough to match up. If people have faded memories of a man punching a meteor, and then both visions of Hydaelyn and the grumblings of certain shadowy figures describe Rhalgr in association with meteors, then people are gonna link those names. It's worth noting that very few of those legends actually fit very close, too; Llymlaen throwing a knife at a nameless researcher for getting too close to a fish somehow turned into her throwing a knife at specifically Oschon for seeing her naked; that's a LOT of narrative drift in that tale, they aren't very close at all to the truth.

It seems that you misunderstood what I meant and I still believe my questions are valid:

The current names of the Twelve are not the same as in the unsundered world, but was the same as what the Omphalos Monument recorded. In 6.3, what was written on the monument was said to be "written by gods themselves."

So in the sundered world, the names Eorzeans knew were the same as the deity defined themselves, no matter if it's Hydaelyn who named them when creating them or they named themselves. In my opnion, the names on the monument are the Twelves' true names, which have nothing to do with their names in the unsundered world.

So my questions are still valid: Who told these names and (at least) part of their background stories to Eorzeans? And why wasn't it spread to the rest of the world?
It seems that the term "Eorzea is embraced by gods (in the Japanese version is "loved by the gods")" is now literal rather than figurative. IMO it does not shed a positive light because the game's world has expanded to far beyond Eorzea and the vibe of monotheism -- your gods are truer than mine -- does not taste good.

[SilverArrow20XX]

It seems that you misunderstood what I meant and I still believe my questions are valid:

The current names of the Twelve are not the same as in the unsundered world, but was the same as what the Omphalos Monument recorded. In 6.3, what was written on the monument was said to be "written by gods themselves."

So in the sundered world, the names Eorzeans knew were the same as the deity defined themselves, no matter if it's Hydaelyn who named them when creating them or they named themselves. In my opnion, the names on the monument are the Twelves' true names, which have nothing to do with their names in the unsundered world.

So my questions are still valid: Who told these names and (at least) part of their background stories to Eorzeans? And why wasn't it spread to the rest of the world?
It seems that the term "Eorzea is embraced by gods (in the Japanese version is "loved by the gods")" is now literal rather than figurative. IMO it does not shed a positive light because the game's world has expanded to far beyond Eorzea and the vibe of monotheism -- your gods are truer than mine -- does not taste good.

I think the simplest answer is

The twelve were more hands on in the immediate aftermath of the Sundering. The Age predating the 1st Calamity was the Age of Gods after all, and lasted for over 2,000 years. (Sundering was 12,000 years ago, and the Void was 10,000) Might also go into explaining why Religion went so out of control in the 2nd Astral Era.

[Alleluia]

It bugged me after 6.3 and it still bugs me now:

If the Twelve was a "system" created by Hydaelyn and they "never manifested before men," then how did Eorzeans know their true names and at least part of their background stories? Even if something happened around Mor Dhona during the 3rd astral era and some men accidentally witnessed the images of one or two gods, was it possible that they got to know the names of the Gods and their charges that accurately?
So who spread the messages of the gods to Eorzeans but not anyone else in the world? Was it Hydaelyn? If so why would she do that? Because she loved Eorzeans the best?
Also, if the Twleve was to maintain the running of the Source, then did Hydaelyn create similar systems for the shards? At least we didn't get any clue either in the First or in the 13th.

Here's 10 chars:

Didn't Rhalgr (or one of the other ones) mention this in the second wing related quests? In Rhalgr's Reach. Said that people occasionally have seen the phantom realm over the years and gotten glimpses of the 12 and that's why we know anything at all about them?

And also that the 12 have been influenced and changed over the years to match our mythos of them based on belief; as confirmed by Menphina in her otpional dialogue bubble in Omphalos this patch before the third wing unlock. Specifically talking about how she got the dog.

So both those things are at play to explain how we have even a remotely accurate idea of what the twelve are like.

And I think its too much of an assumption to say we got their true/real names, though that might be a mix of remnants of pre-sundering memories (we have cave paintings depicting Amaurot, so why not?), the 12 manifesting over they years (they don't claim they've been completely hands off at all times), and again people projecting their own mythology on the 12.