Are We Really At The Point We Consider The Classic Relic Steps Engaging And "Fun"?

[DiaDeem]

I mean... all grinds are repetitive just by nature, but OG ARR Relic had two trials specifically made for it. Hydra and Chimera in Coerthas, then you had to defeat the 3 HM Primals. It wasn't until ATMA and Animus that it got legit horrible. The Alexandrite step also was kinda fun imho, and I never minded Light Farming too much. Going to Zodiac had the caveat of costing at least 400K, and then getting the crafted items was a bit weird, but it felt like an interesting step, if a bit flawed. The whole quest felt like it had distinct interesting steps that made you engage with a bunch of different parts of the game, which I think is the big difference.

For Manderville: we don't have unique trials for them, we don't have a unique exploratory zone with Lost Actions and unique small boss fights (Critical Engagements) with its own story and leveling system, we're not required to engage with the open world or any other part of the game. All we can do is EW dungeons/trails. There's just no personality or a real journey to take... it feels very mechanical instead.

Wanting personality and a journey to take doesn't mean we have to do ATMAs or Animus Books again. There's plenty of interesting ways to make a grind more interesting.

[VerdeLuck]

I know you mean well by this, but reading that with other posts/comments in mind just makes me think that people want the relics to be more exclusive. I've had someone tell me in game "they aren't special because anyone can get them." I find them special BECAUSE everyone can. I think that's awesome.

A different currency is fine, but the accessibility is a major success as far as I'm concerned. But also the future proofing into poetics as well.

That's exactly what people want. It's an MMO, saying something has "value" or "should mean something" is just a code word for "I want it, but it should be exclusive enough other people can't have it".
It's how MMO players are hard wired.

[Xirean]

That's exactly what people want. It's an MMO, saying something has "value" or "should mean something" is just a code word for "I want it, but it should be exclusive enough other people can't have it".
It's how MMO players are hard wired.

And I think that is a bad view that need not be catered to. That's actually something I consider toxic.

[ChrysOCE]

I know you mean well by this, but reading that with other posts/comments in mind just makes me think that people want the relics to be more exclusive. I've had someone tell me in game "they aren't special because anyone can get them." I find them special BECAUSE everyone can. I think that's awesome.

A different currency is fine, but the accessibility is a major success as far as I'm concerned. But also the future proofing into poetics as well.

Sorry, but how is that even remotely possible? How can you think something is special, if anyone can get it, with minimal effort? It's entirely NOT special. When I say drop the pretense, and just call it a tomestone weapon, this is no longer "relic" content.

[ChrysOCE]

That's exactly what people want. It's an MMO, saying something has "value" or "should mean something" is just a code word for "I want it, but it should be exclusive enough other people can't have it".
It's how MMO players are hard wired.

Why is that bad thing, when it comes to relic weapons though? Ultimate Weapons require clearing Ultimates. Extreme Weapons require clearing Extremes. They take effort and commitment. And even then, relics aren't exclusive. Anyone can get a prior relic. If they put the time and commitment in. That's what makes them special?

[Poporito_Popoto]

Maybe... but it depends on how you acquire the currency. To me, the main thing with relics is that it took effort and commitment to complete. When you had your finished relic, you could look at it and think "I earned this". This current one is so devoid of any kind of sense of accomplishment, it's almost funny.

Better than not doing a relic because you find the content to get it dull and not worth the effort, i.e. Bore-zjan. I did it once to get my triad card and then I was done.

[VerdeLuck]

Why is that bad thing, when it comes to relic weapons though? Ultimate Weapons require clearing Ultimates. Extreme Weapons require clearing Extremes. They take effort and commitment. And even then, relics aren't exclusive. Anyone can get a prior relic. If they put the time and commitment in. That's what makes them special?

Because there's no satisfying that mentality. Ultimate players will say anything older than the current ultimate weapon "doesn't mean anything because it's easy now". No matter the difficulty, it's just a constantly shifting "well that piece of content means nothing now because too many people did it"
You can't satisfy those people when everyone wants content to be just easy enough for them to do it but hard enough to gate everyone else. It's just an outdated and flawed way of thinking about content and game design that MMO players seem to hang into.

It's just really weird to be someone who actively criticizes content because too many people can enjoy it and it's not exclusive enough. The current Relics are great, I can make progress without feeling like I have to drop absolutely everything, I can feel like I'm making tangible progress every time I log in and work on it, something that previous grinds did not have.
sitting around for hours and having to log out because I couldn't get the atma drops fell awful. Doing dozens of runs of raids to get drops, and then seeing I have triple digit more completions of it before I could start the next grind felt awful, trying to run DR and it being empty over and over felt awful when you needed that for a step.
those all "mean something" I guess since they're miserable grinds that take a long time but I don't particularly enjoy those steps as much as I enjoy these current ones.

[ChrysOCE]

Because there's no satisfying that mentality. Ultimate players will say anything older than the current ultimate weapon "doesn't mean anything because it's easy now". No matter the difficulty, it's just a constantly shifting "well that piece of content means nothing now because too many people did it"
You can't satisfy those people when everyone wants content to be just easy enough for them to do it but hard enough to gate everyone else. It's just an outdated and flawed way of thinking about content and game design that MMO players seem to hang into.

Where are you gated, in prior relics? There's nothing "hard" in relics. It's just time and commitement?

[Deceptus]

How is this future proof?

Love them or hate them, Endwalker's relic is indeed future proof as the mat currency will eventually to go poetics. And you can get those mostly by running roulettes, something that helps the health of the game overall.

Vs.

Having to beg for a Reginae group in Bozja while being synced down. Having to worry about losing exp in Eureka because there's no groups and you can't solo fate bosses (especially the end ones Louhi etc etc)

Having to beat your head against RNG for Light / Atmas / etc ect

Where are you gated, in prior relics? There's nothing "hard" in relics. It's just time and commitement?

If you can't find a DR group, you can't complete the ShB relic, at all. Can't be done. If you work odd hours that basically keeps it out of reach for you.

Same with Stormblood and Eureka. You can't kill those fate bosses by yourself.

[TaleraRistain]

I know you mean well by this, but reading that with other posts/comments in mind just makes me think that people want the relics to be more exclusive. I've had someone tell me in game "they aren't special because anyone can get them." I find them special BECAUSE everyone can. I think that's awesome.

A different currency is fine, but the accessibility is a major success as far as I'm concerned. But also the future proofing into poetics as well.

Technically anyone can get an ARR, HW, SB, or ShB relic. Some of those are more future-proofed than others. That's the entire idea of the relics. They're meant to be the non-raiding answer to an endgame weapon. But what makes them a relic versus a tome weapon is the journey to obtaining it. And as I said, we can debate the finer points of the specifics of the journey. But the existence of the journey is what makes the reward at the end feel unique. And that applies to a many things in XIV. There's a journey to a reward and that can help make the reward worthwhile.