I'm One Of The Filthiests Of Casuals And Even I Can See How Dumbdown FF14 Has Become!

[Zairava]

MCH was never the same situation. The original concept was overwhelming reject in 3.0, and 4.0 was an emergency remade, that was remade again in 5.0. MCH never had an solid identity or concept. They were all done so the job don't get scrab all together.








I feel all of these answers are missing the point I'm trying. Rather you guys are just leaning on what I said as a convenience way to beat on a dead horse that had been beaten to zombie. If anything, these replies further prove my point more than anything. None of the jobs mentioned had a complete tear down and re-imagination like SMN did. Had instead of remaking the old SMN, the new SMN was introduced as a new job I don't think anyone would have blink. The job was "fundamentally" changed. Whether all of the job "rework" are still just more or less adjusted/tackled on/patched up on the same foundation.

Again, the fact you all insist SE has been doing a bad job with these classes, that just re-enforce my point that maybe they all need a complete tear down like SMN.

I agree that they need a complete tear-down, it's just given their track record with even just reworks doesn't give me much faith that they'll actually do a good job with it or expand on it much mechanically.

I don't really like current summoner, it goes without saying that I think Shadowbringers or Stormblood were the best installments (outside of pets dying in combat), but it still feels fresh despite its glaring issues.

If say, despite my usual consistent bitching about DRK when possible, if it got a complete tear-down and was given its own combat identity, I'd be less frustrated and might have more ideas on how to expand upon that rather than looking at it now and just seeing that its old iteration with Shadowbringer QoL would be pretty solid and trying to find a middle ground.

[Raven2014]

I agree that they need a complete tear-down, it's just given their track record with even just reworks doesn't give me much faith that they'll actually do a good job with it or expand on it much mechanically.

I don't really like current summoner, it goes without saying that I think Shadowbringers or Stormblood were the best installments (outside of pets dying in combat), but it still feels fresh despite its glaring issues.

If say, despite my usual consistent bitching about DRK when possible, if it got a complete tear-down and was given it's own combat identity, I'd be less frustrated and might have more ideas on how to expand upon that rather than looking at it now and just seeing that its old iteration with Shadowbringer QoL would be pretty solid and trying to find a middle ground.

That's why I'm reserving my judgement about SMN until the next expansion. A complete tear down is something they have never done before, and unlike MCH it looks more like they have an actual intend for the class. Regardless of what one may feel about the new SMN, the changed had made a SMN a lot more popular (and again, statistic matter more than feeling). That proved that the first step was the correct and necessary decision, so the question now is how they're going forward with it. And like I said, start low enough and the only way to go is up.

The reason I mentioned MNK and AST specifically because they're the worst offender to me ATM.

- MNK has gotten the point where you can develop cabal tunnel playing it, so I feel any more development/tunning to Grease Lighting is a dead end. It also already has a weird arse rotation that only gonna get either weirder, or normalized to be the same as other jobs.
- AST still has a lot artifact lingering from the original design when it was a go between WHM and SCH, those has to go. The card system has been getting worse with each iteration that I don't think they can adjust it any more, but re-do the concept.

Basically these two classes I can't imagine any new change/addition to them that won't make the worse instead of better. So I rather suffer one expansion where they get stripped down to the bone then rebuilt.

[Supersnow845]

That's why I'm reserving my judgement about SMN until the next expansion. A complete tear down is something they have never done before, and unlike MCH it looks more like they have an actual intend for the class. Regardless of what one may feel about the new SMN, the changed had made a SMN a lot more popular (and again, statistic matter more than feeling). That proved that the first step was the correct and necessary decision, so the question now is how they're going forward with it. And like I said, start low enough and the only way to go is up.

The reason I mentioned MNK and AST specifically because they're the worst offender to me ATM.

- MNK has gotten the point where you can develop cabal tunnel playing it, so I feel any more development/tunning to Grease Lighting is a dead end. It also already has a weird arse rotation that only gonna get either weirder, or normalized to be the same as other jobs.
- AST still has a lot artifact lingering from the original design when it was a go between WHM and SCH, those has to go. The card system has been getting worse with each iteration that I don't think they can adjust it any more, but re-do the concept.

Basically these two classes I can't imagine any new change/addition to them that won't make the worse instead of better. So I rather suffer one expansion where they get stripped down to the bone then rebuilt.

Have you looked at monk in like 2 expansions, greased lightning is gone, modern MNK is one of the best designed classes in the game