JP interviews [pre-6.5]

[VentVanitas]

There is an inherent conflict between people that "enjoy weapon enhancement as content" and people that "want a system that makes it easy to obtain weapons". Satisfying both is very hard.

why is this a challenge for them? this is a problem they already solved before EW even dropped. tomestone weapons are right there, make them easier to obtain more frequently if you must- but leaving literally nothing for people who liked grinding relics isn't a solution.

[Atelier-Bagur]

why is this a challenge for them? this is a problem they already solved before EW even dropped. tomestone weapons are right there, make them easier to obtain more frequently if you must- but leaving literally nothing for people who liked grinding relics isn't a solution.

Again, its because not many players obtained more than one weapon and I can vouch for that statement because yeah...past relic chains were such a grind that it was a huge chore to do multiple ones, even when you try to do many of them at the same time, its just not appealing to do unless you are just THAT BORED in the game.

Whats frustrating about his statement is that I completely agree with him. I also think its bad that not many people complete multiple relics in previous expansions because yeah the grinds were too stupid with a lot of the steps, but the issue is that he went into the far other extreme were the relic grind is too simple, the exact same and boring. I understand the philosophy behind the tomestone idea because you can theoretically get them via multidud avenues but when all you have to do is your daily duty roulettes to get the 3 same materials at the same price in less than a single day the we have a problem.

I really wish they could go back to form and take a page of some of the less grindy steps from the ARR relic chain where you had to do a unique trial, or had a book that required you to run certain content or go on a treasure hunt, or do Fates where you only needed one item per zone (rather than the bullshit 20 of 3 types of memories like in the Shb relic....) Like literally give us SOMETHING different and a tad long lasting rather than making it too boring and quick to get or making it too boring and grindy to get a single one. There has to be a sweet middle and he's not aiming for that.

[ForteNightshade]

Again, its because not many players obtained more than one weapon and I can vouch for that statement because yeah...past relic chains were such a grind that it was a huge chore to do multiple ones, even when you try to do many of them at the same time, its just not appealing to do unless you are just THAT BORED in the game.

I'm going to quote my response from reddit:

Nobody is really asking for an exact copy of ARR or HW relic grinds though. Running Gordias normal 600 bazillion times wouldn't be fun either.

People want a middle ground between two awful extremes. We went from absurdly tedious to so laughably easy they may as well be free. Eureka and Bozja were that middle ground for a lot of people despite neither being without flaws. It seems the dev team has conflated players not getting every relic with it being too hard.

But let's put all that aside. Why can't they be innovative? Take the old book phase from ARR but instead of making it awful, borrow from Wondrous Tales.

They could also scale down Criterion slightly, toss in all the Lost Actions and let us build our relic in there. Make it like a harder Variant, and the actions help balance out the difficulty. You could also have Variant reward these relic "tokens" or whatever but simply less of them.

And just like that you've fixed V/C's terrible reward structure and made the relic step not "lazy."

That's the issue people have. They didn't even bother doing anything with the relic this time around. It's one step away from mailing it to you after downloading the patch.

I don't know why but this dev team seems to only operate in massive extremes. Yeah, previous relic steps were a slog. That doesn't mean do a 180 and make them an absolute joke. Making it so everyone can get them with virtually zero effort devalues the whole purpose of getting them in the first place. Instead of being able to show off this cool weapon you've worked hard on, you'll pop into Limsa and see 50 other players with the exact same weapon because y'all logged in with 2,000 tomes capped.

"We already have tomestone weapons"

No, we don't. We have tomestone/raid weapons. Which would be fine, except that the drops from normal raids are limited to once a week. I'd like to get an upgrade to my green gear on all four jobs I play without having to wait a literal half year. So either keep relics as they are or uncap the drops from normal raids.

The tome weapon is better though. If they unlocked it, not only would it completely invalidate the relic until the very last patch but basically every other weapon that isn't Savage. Speaking of which, you have options to upgrade your gear. Go do Golbez. He offers the exact same ilvl was the relic just with slightly less substats. That "green gear" of yours, assuming it's crafted, is only 5 ilvls below the relic. Why do you need to upgrade it so desperately that the relic should be sacrificed into a welfare weapon? Full i640 is already hilariously overgeared for any content that isn't Savage or Ultimate.

[Iscah]

Making it so everyone can get them with virtually zero effort devalues the whole purpose of getting them in the first place. Instead of being able to show off this cool weapon you've worked hard on, you'll pop into Limsa and see 50 other players with the exact same weapon because y'all logged in with 2,000 tomes capped.

"Oh noes, other people have the same shiny thing! However will I show off my superior dedication to pouring hours of my life into a videogame?"

I couldn't care less about what other players have or not. I'll get the thing if it looks good to me.

[ForteNightshade]

"Oh noes, other people have the same shiny thing! However will I show off my superior dedication to pouring hours of my life into a videogame?"

I couldn't care less about what other players have or not. I'll get the thing if it looks good to me.

Who said anything about superiority? People like to show off their accomplishments just like they like showing off a cute outfit. It doesn't necessarily mean they're dunking on everyone else. When said thing has no accomplishment, or has that accomplishment reduced to pretty much nothing. Yeah, it might be a little upsetting.

I mean, think about it. This whole relic step exists because people on the other side were upset they couldn't get something another person had despite it being readily available... provided they put in the same effort. They just didn't want to. So why do they get to complain but the people who want to work for something should just suck it up and stop caring?

[Zairava]

"Oh noes, other people have the same shiny thing! However will I show off my superior dedication to pouring hours of my life into a videogame?"

I couldn't care less about what other players have or not. I'll get the thing if it looks good to me.

Yeah, how dare people feel good about accomplishments they sunk hours into and show the fruits of their efforts.

Absolutely none of this is about superiority. It's not about bragging that "I sunk hours into pixels on a screen and you didn't". It's "Hey I took the time to get this cool thing and I want to show you what it looks like"

It's the same with EX mounts and rare items from treasure maps and new glamours. You aren't doing it to feel superior to others, you're doing it to feel good about getting it and sharing it with others.

[Gullis]

Idk how the weapon situation is hard for them to figure out.... Just remove the retarded 7 week requirement for tomestones weapons. Done, issue solved

[Arrius]

Yeah, how dare people feel good about accomplishments they sunk hours into and show the fruits of their efforts.

Absolutely none of this is about superiority. It's not about bragging that "I sunk hours into pixels on a screen and you didn't". It's "Hey I took the time to get this cool thing and I want to show you what it looks like"

It's the same with EX mounts and rare items from treasure maps and new glamours. You aren't doing it to feel superior to others, you're doing it to feel good about getting it and sharing it with others.

Nah. Some definitely will have those on day 1 so they can flex their 'success' in Limsa or through fashion screenies. Because that means you are ahead of them and let your smugness get the better of you.

[TaleraRistain]

Whats frustrating about his statement is that I completely agree with him. I also think its bad that not many people complete multiple relics in previous expansions because yeah the grinds were too stupid with a lot of the steps, but the issue is that he went into the far other extreme were the relic grind is too simple, the exact same and boring. I understand the philosophy behind the tomestone idea because you can theoretically get them via multidud avenues but when all you have to do is your daily duty roulettes to get the 3 same materials at the same price in less than a single day the we have a problem.

Yeah that's my conflict on the subject, too. I love the relics. They were my favorite content in ARR and especially HW. But part of the draw was that you had specific things to do to accomplish them.

Maybe they could consider offering relics for tomes after the first one is completed through a variety of specific steps. And not that we completionists need a carrot, but maybe you only get the achievement if you do it through the grind route. That way those who want the glam can get the glam with tomes and others can go the route with more involved steps and get rewarded for their effort.

[Aravell]

Maybe they could consider offering relics for tomes after the first one is completed through a variety of specific steps.

This is probably the best choice to appeal to both sides. People who want a proper relic grind so the first relic feels like an achievement will be satisfied and the people who just want glamour would also have an easier time collecting relics after they finish one.