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  1. #1
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
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    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,585
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur View Post
    Whats frustrating about his statement is that I completely agree with him. I also think its bad that not many people complete multiple relics in previous expansions because yeah the grinds were too stupid with a lot of the steps, but the issue is that he went into the far other extreme were the relic grind is too simple, the exact same and boring. I understand the philosophy behind the tomestone idea because you can theoretically get them via multidud avenues but when all you have to do is your daily duty roulettes to get the 3 same materials at the same price in less than a single day the we have a problem.
    Yeah that's my conflict on the subject, too. I love the relics. They were my favorite content in ARR and especially HW. But part of the draw was that you had specific things to do to accomplish them.

    Maybe they could consider offering relics for tomes after the first one is completed through a variety of specific steps. And not that we completionists need a carrot, but maybe you only get the achievement if you do it through the grind route. That way those who want the glam can get the glam with tomes and others can go the route with more involved steps and get rewarded for their effort.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Aravell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,043
    Character
    J'thaldi Rhid
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    Maybe they could consider offering relics for tomes after the first one is completed through a variety of specific steps.
    This is probably the best choice to appeal to both sides. People who want a proper relic grind so the first relic feels like an achievement will be satisfied and the people who just want glamour would also have an easier time collecting relics after they finish one.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
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    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,585
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Aravell View Post
    This is probably the best choice to appeal to both sides. People who want a proper relic grind so the first relic feels like an achievement will be satisfied and the people who just want glamour would also have an easier time collecting relics after they finish one.
    Alternatively, they could make a relic currency that has a variety of ways to obtain it. I did like how some steps in previous relics did allow you to passively gain items but even then it was a bit more focused. This comes from your 70s dungeons, or this from your 60s dungeons, or this when you run these specific alliance raids, etc.

    I think one of the key things isn't so much how long things take but that the player makes a choice to engage with a specific piece of content so they're purposefully spending their time on that task. And that makes it feel more valuable since you are carving out time for that and having to make a choice to possibly not do something else.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Zairava's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    704
    Character
    Grimahed Darkovin
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    Yeah that's my conflict on the subject, too. I love the relics. They were my favorite content in ARR and especially HW. But part of the draw was that you had specific things to do to accomplish them.

    Maybe they could consider offering relics for tomes after the first one is completed through a variety of specific steps. And not that we completionists need a carrot, but maybe you only get the achievement if you do it through the grind route. That way those who want the glam can get the glam with tomes and others can go the route with more involved steps and get rewarded for their effort.
    I'd be okay with revisiting an ARR route, even Heavensward.

    I'd also be okay if we had to do at least one through specific steps too, then it was made easier after.

    Let's say for example that for the aether crystals for the anima, you did it once but afterwards you can get one of each for X amount of tomes, depending on if they use poetics or the prior tome currency.

    Same thing with the memories in Bozja, instead of having to collect 20 of each every time, you could get them through the cluster exchange after completion. That way you could still interact with the environment and progress with other relics at the same time. (alternatively it could be relegated to poetics as well, for those not wanting to join cluster farms.)
    (1)
    Last edited by Zairava; 09-20-2023 at 05:09 PM. Reason: added another thought at the end. reread edits, the usual.

  5. #5
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,585
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Zairava View Post
    I'd be okay with revisiting an ARR route, even Heavensward.
    Heavensward is my favorite relic quest series. The crystal sand step is a particular favorite because of the different types of options that were available. I did also enjoy the book concept in ARR, if not the implementation. One of my main complaints with Eureka and Bozja was a lack of options. And while tomestones do satisfy this, the fact they're not a currency that's unique just to the relics makes the effort feel less important. I don't really feel like I earned a Manderville and that's what I like most about doing the relic quests.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Ririta's Avatar
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    Mar 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    444
    Character
    Ririta Rita
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    This sounds harsh but I don't think they did a good job. The raids were very, very bland, and Euphrosyne in particular is the most boring alliance raid, possibly even more boring than Syrcus Tower in terms of mechanical complexity and innovation.
    Honestly, alliance raids have been bad since after Orbone Monastery. I don't what happened between Stormblood and Shadowbringers, but boss mechanics in general started having way too much focus on animation cues and arena cleaves while not caring that there are 23 people in the group, they almost never use that fact to create mechanics.
    (8)

  7. #7
    Player
    MisterNublet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    441
    Character
    Autechre Voidmoon
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ririta View Post
    Honestly, alliance raids have been bad since after Orbone Monastery. I don't what happened between Stormblood and Shadowbringers, but boss mechanics in general started having way too much focus on animation cues and arena cleaves while not caring that there are 23 people in the group, they almost never use that fact to create mechanics.
    How incredible the game could be if they would make Extreme/Savage versions of the Alliance Raids along side the Normal/Easy. If i recall correctly, Nier raids were suppose to be harder but Yoshi-P asked them to dumb it down. How great it would have been to have the pre-nerf version as an extreme.
    (7)

  8. #8
    Player
    Zairava's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    704
    Character
    Grimahed Darkovin
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    • They settled on tomes due to looking at data for how many weapons were made by players in past relic content. Yoshi acknowledges though that: "However, there are some people who say that this reinforcement method is ``sloppy'', so it's difficult... Some people may dislike doing elaborate things like the old weapon enhancement content, while others may feel that the enhancement methods like this one are not enough. I think this is probably not compatible."
    • They settled on tomes as these days playing multiple jobs is much more common, and they think tomes being something that naturally accumulates as you play makes it best suit your individual playstyle.
    • The Manderville Relics have the highest completion rate of any relic so far. The more elaborate they make the relic content/grind, the fewer people make one.
    • There is an inherent conflict between people that "enjoy weapon enhancement as content" and people that "want a system that makes it easy to obtain weapons". Satisfying both is very hard.
    • They will take feedback into account for 7.x's relic series.
    I'm not surprised it's tomes for the last step given Endwalker. I'm just going to get straight to it because this infuriated me.

    I'm not sure how somebody wouldn't expect far, far more relic acquisitions with it being this way. There is literally ZERO extra effort involved. Do your roulettes, gg.

    Our own methods? Like what? Do your daily roulettes or run the same easy msq dungeons hundreds of times, and no, the job design currently does not make up for it. The other content released in Endwalker doesn't give enough to justify doing them, and no one is running them outside of friend groups because there's close to no longevity with criterion as of current patch, and deep dungeon does not give enough exp to make people queue for it except for completion.

    We already have what's supposed to be considered tome weapons. If there has to be a weapon obtainable through tomes this easily, make it that one. Tome cap or no tome cap.

    If you really want to have a path like this available for players who don't want the grind. Simply make it an option. Not the only option, but an option. There's many of us who enjoy the grind to get them. If there isn't any sense of accomplishment from getting them, then it feels like there's no point other than it just being some weapon that glows.

    • There's "more stuff" planned for the gap between 6.55 and 7.0 than they covered at NA Fan Fest. They'll talk more about it at the EU one. They need to spread out announcements and stuff since there are 3 Fan Fests again now.
    • They have adjusted the rewards of Alliance Raid Roulette to be consistent with how much time you'd spend in a given instance to make up for the ilevel-cheese removal.
    • The last Alliance Raid might be stronger than usual this time.
    • Their data says a huge number of people have engaged with Variant Dungeons in their own way.
    • The 6.51 Criterion dungeon will receive an increase in rewards compared to the past two. They will consider feedback on this before determining the 7.x Criterion rewards.
    • There will be a title for clearing all 3 Criterion dungeons from 6.x, but they are considering how else they could reward that to see if they can get it in in time.
    • PvP iteration will continue into 7.x, including CC, Frontlines, and Rival Wings.
    • The Fall Guys collab will be limited time, periodic content and not a permanent fixture.
    These, however, are good to hear.

    I'm interested to see what's in store between 6.55 and 7.0 to hold us over, especially knowing the trial will be released sometime after JP fanfest now.

    I hope the new alliance is more challenging than Aglaia, at least. Please don't release an alliance raid as easy as Euphrosyne again.

    I've been waiting for the exp rewards being adjusted in alliance raid roulette for what feels like forever, I'm happy with decision. Thank you for removing IL cheese as well.

    Criterion feedback being noted and seeing that the feedback is actually being heard, considered worked upon is wonderful, I've been enjoying the details on these subjects regardless of if I'm happy with the statements or not. The insight is invaluable and I'd like it to continue.

    I'm happy that the pvp changes are here to stay, I've been enjoying it much more since they launched. Please add crowd control resist in frontlines, though. I don't mind when jobs have quirks to them like DRK's pull, but if I literally do not have the resources to survive because they can just abuse it and delete my entire alliance in a fraction of a second due to pre-mades, it becomes unfun.

    I'm a little disappointed the fall guys collaboration isn't going to stay, but I can understand why it won't be.
    (6)
    Last edited by Zairava; 09-20-2023 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Refined first bit, forgot to add pvp in the second

  9. #9
    Player
    Gullis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    527
    Character
    Gullis Hil
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    To few ppl have ultimate weapons. Plz allow me to buy for 1500 tomes
    (9)

  10. #10
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,560
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    The Manderville Relics have the highest completion rate of any relic so far.
    I mean... they come for 'free' if you just play the game normally without going out of your way. Naturally they would be the 'most completed'. Using that metric to deem that 6.0 relics were a success is kind of skewed.

    But if they are considering feedback for 7.0 relic, there's a chance that this kind of thing will not repeat.
    (4)

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