What is Midcore? Why does it matter?

[R041]

I can really only think of a few pieces of content where you can run solo and have some sort of difficulty attached to it, and that's all deep dungeons. Running deep dungeons solo has been a pretty fun experience but if I were to refer to your list later, the difficulty scaling on the later floors(150-200 potd, 70-100 on everything else) would be pushing the echelons of "hardcore" gaming, because you need to be prepared with pomanders, know the mob abilities, boss abilities etc etc along with spending significant amount of time on each set of 10 floors. Other content I can think of that might qualify would be... not that much honestly, solo queueing for older extremes to see if you can clear it? BLU Carnivale maybe without looking at guides. If they allowed criterion dungeons to be soloed, I'd be all over that, I think the content itself is nice but I hate being pigeonholed into healer because no one else wants to play it. Oh I suppose duels in bozja and zadnor but that requires quite a bit of preparation and rng to get into(let's not talk about how many times I got passed over before they introduced the fame counter).

That's the problem - It's not that I always want to be solo, or solo at all. I just want the flexibility to be with people, but not force them to rely on me for my weekly constraints. That's not even a per minute thing really, it's mostly that I have to PUG, so anything requiring a dedicated group gets very fuzzy. Most things you can PUG/Duty Finder in XIV right now are so easy that nobody even wants to talk, because they know they're just going about their casual day. So I'm also asking for more random peer to peer engagement through difficulty.


This is roughly what I'm asking for:

- Less constrained (stop group locking) POTD hard floors
- Min iLvl Synced/harder Wondrous Tails that span more content overall
- Critical Engagements in open world
- Don't cycle out Unreal (Isn't this FOMO?)
- Difficulty Modifiers for Dungeons that actually change rewards.

Wondrous Tails without any form of required Sync just diminishes it so significantly, it's really frustrating.

I also think a Min iLvl Dungeon Boss Rush would be really fun, take a series from a couple dungeons and run them back to back. I genuinely think we just need to get rid of hallway trash entirely at this point though. lol

[DiaDeem]

Have you completed bozja? Do you have all the big fish?

See... the fact that you're comparing those two in the same sentence tells me that you really have no idea what midcore means to the people who want that kind of content.

As for your questions: Yeah, I have completed Bozja and Eureka. I don't have all the big fish, and I've got to floor 70 in HoH but that's about it, since going higher as a SCH is a bit on the... ehem, hardcore side of things. I do have a bunch of Animas, some of them made when the content was current, but not all of them as they, well... require a lot of investment and time. And I'm sorry, but the fact that you're judging Eureka as a whole without even engaging with the content is making it hard to take you seriously and further cements the fact that you have no idea what a midcore player actually wants. So yeah, I figured you wouldn't even have your Elemental Armor, and I was right.

It's a bit sad that you advocate for less content, as you seem to think that a single EX and a fight or two of Savage every four months are enough for midcore players, even though you've clearly demonstrated you don't even know what that kind of player actually wants.

Either way, I'm out. Take care.

[SophiaDL]

I wouldn't say casuals do Extremes. Extremes as "casual" shows probably you are harder core and view these as super easy for the people who play sporatically and aren't that invested in the game, or just like chill content.

Anybody can clear Extreme, when I did a tiny bit of raiding and content a few months back, I was done with the ex in about an hour or so, just by doing PF

Extreme isnt hard, it's casual content at its best, even ultimates and savage can be PF'd, technically making them midcore content and not hardcore content, there is no time constraint, no time schedule to respect, log in, jump into PF and do savage/ultimate

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

See... the fact that you're comparing those two in the same sentence tells me that you really have no idea what midcore means to the people who want that kind of content.

As for your questions: Yeah, I have completed Bozja and Eureka. I don't have all the big fish, and I've got to floor 70 in HoH but that's about it, since going higher as a SCH is a bit on the... ehem, hardcore side of things. I do have a bunch of Animas, some of them made when the content was current, but not all of them as they, well... require a lot of investment and time. And I'm sorry, but the fact that you're judging Eureka as a whole without even engaging with the content is making it hard to take you seriously and further cements the fact that you have no idea what a midcore player actually wants. So yeah, I figured you wouldn't even have your Elemental Armor, and I was right.

It's a bit sad that you advocate for less content, as you seem to think that a single EX and a fight or two of Savage every four months are enough for midcore players, even though you've clearly demonstrated you don't even know what that kind of player actually wants.

Either way, I'm out. Take care.

I said I didn't complete the relic. I've been all the way to hydatos. I just never found the content engaging.





All these definitions are are about time investments. You have to set a limiter on the period though, or it becomes hazy.



For me, the limiter is weekly. How often do you do x content per week?



Relics are casual, you don't need to spend tons of time per week to get them all.



EX fights don't take much time either. They can be done casually.



I'm what I consider a midcore savage player. I spend roughly 7 hours a week in savage. No more. Hardcore players do twice that a day the first week of savage.



I don't advocate for less content. I'm just presenting that you have more available content than you think you do.

[Kyrj]

Gonna guess you mean the Zepla video sooo yeah, the lack of a Bozja/Eureka zone in EW was very noticeable. Part of the reason I liked those zones was it provided content that wasn't just braindead dungeons, a few fights were on par with EX with a couple of Bozja/Zadnor duels and DRS being comparable to the weakest Savage fights. But more importantly for me I like having a zone where it feels like an MMO outside of Limsa. Outside of hunt trains when's the last time you saw a massive group of people in Garlemald? Maybe the launch month? I just like having a zone where you see people farming mobs, doing CE's and watching people duel. You don't get that in Garlemald or in Limsa...you get RP venue spam....yay.

[TaleraRistain]

I wouldn't say casuals do Extremes. Extremes as "casual" shows probably you are harder core and view these as super easy for the people who play sporatically and aren't that invested in the game, or just like chill content.

Yeah I agree on this. Casuals don't tend to do things that live in PF. And I need to go back and do the previous ones this expansion but Golbez with his body checks definitely isn't something that more casual players are going to be tackling.

I think part of the issue is the idea that it's just time or commitment that determines the type of content something is. You can PF EX, Savage, and even some early Ultimates now I think I've seen in PF. But those pieces of content aren't casual just because they're possible with a random group in PF because there is still prep work and coordination required to be successful at them. I do think we tend to judge content level based on where we are ourselves and our own perceptions of what we are, too. I'm doing Savage this tier and having a blast but it's been very difficult to not still think of myself as casually minded because what I want most of all out of content is being able to engage with it when I want to and not feeling it's something I have to do or is a chore I need to get through.

[Sebazy]

IMHO Arguing about what defines Midcore vs Casual or Hardcore is kind of missing the issue here.

The big problem is there isn't really any kind of consistent step up group combat content to build a new player up into Extremes and beyond. Roulette dungeons, alliance and normal modes are a face roll with next to 0 personal responsibility. Flail about on the floor as much as you want, it won't matter outside of potentially making things slower.

Suddenly you hit Extremes where enrages are a thing, personal responsibility is a thing and the need to communicate.... is also a thing. All of these pressure points all land at once.

SE have done better here. In 2.0, dungeons taught you personal responsibility, they taught you about enrages and they taught the need to communicate but most importantly, they spread these lessons out across multiple bosses and dungeons.

IMHO Alliance raids should reward players for a basic level of contribution. It doesn't have to be orange logs for loot. Just enough of a nudge to let players know what is an acceptable standard of play and what isn't. This could be something like a potency per second ranking at the end of the instance to remove gear from the equation and the reward could be as little as a simple S-F style tier ranking or as much as getting drop token towards an armor piece perhaps with more being granted for better performances? I don't think the level of the reward matters, what's important is letting players know what the game is going to expect of them as they progress through the tiers of endgame content so they are better prepared as they step up to Extremes etc.

[Jeeqbit]

IMHO Arguing about what defines Midcore vs Casual or Hardcore is kind of missing the issue here.

It is sort of relevant because it is actually fair to say that extremes are pretty midcore and many people do them that wouldn't do savage.

The problem is when someone says they are not doing any "high-end" content, either due to time or anxiety, and are left with practically nothing else to do. The problem is also when a raider wants to relax and not do something as serious or organized as a raid, but that isn't as boring and samey as the same expert roulette dungeon for months.

Having something that transitions people from the normal content to high-end content would be good and all, but it's not even all about getting them to do the high-end content, because some people just want normal content that requires more effort and time and teamwork, but that isn't asking you to go and form a static or suffer PF wiping to the same mechanic for months when you can get through it easily. What they achieved with Eureka and Bozja was something that fit that pretty well and it made the expansions feel alive, unlike where we are now where we can solo a lot of the EW content and also be done with it pretty fast.

[ZephyrMenodora]

It is sort of relevant because it is actually fair to say that extremes are pretty midcore and many people do them that wouldn't do savage.

The problem is when someone says they are not doing any "high-end" content, either due to time or anxiety, and are left with practically nothing else to do. The problem is also when a raider wants to relax and not do something as serious or organized as a raid, but that isn't as boring and samey as the same expert roulette dungeon for months.

Having something that transitions people from the normal content to high-end content would be good and all, but it's not even all about getting them to do the high-end content, because some people just want normal content that requires more effort and time and teamwork, but that isn't asking you to go and form a static or suffer PF wiping to the same mechanic for months when you can get through it easily. What they achieved with Eureka and Bozja was something that fit that pretty well and it made the expansions feel alive, unlike where we are now where we can solo a lot of the EW content and also be done with it pretty fast.

Another good take - definitely need some transition content between being able to essentially be carried by competent players and your presence not even mattering in all the normal-level content, and content where your personal accountability and skill needs to be at a certain level - while at the same time not being so challenging that people can't figure it out within a couple hours and succeed in a pug.

[Sebazy]

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Dropping the Bozja ball this expansion was a mistake for sure =(

Hopefully the positivity in the recent Famitsu interview results in us getting one for 7.x++