Evidence that Macros Do NOT Cause GCD Delay or Lost Casts

[Connor]

Why does it matter whether macros are good or bad? If a disabled person struggles to play without them isn’t it then better that they do use macros? Still seems like a net gain to me lol. I highly doubt anyone is turning up to savage/ultimates with their oGCDs macro’d to their basic attack

[FuzzyJCats]

Thank you for all your hard work Lilimo! It shows that you don't have to worry too much about missing dps if you need to macro due to disability reasons. It seems to only be an issue if you're doing ultimates and synced savages. Luckily the community is very understanding when I write in chat that I have problems, it's never been an issue in normal dungeons.

The macros I use are ones where you have to move your cursor and then press X for the ability (ex Earthly Star). This takes a long time on controller, as you have to move the target manually with analog stick, whereas, a macro will automatically put down the ability where you target. I use your technique of writing multiple lines for queue and it works flawlessly.

Ironically, using a macro this way actually shaves off seconds b/c it takes time to move cursor as a controller player.

That's such a wealth of information that you've given and will reread more in depth and watch your YT videos!

[Sindele]

Decided to take a deeper dive. Turns out it's a real pain to get millisecond precision from chat messages, but the result I got was kind of a no-brainer in retrospect: macros execute one line per frame. This was consistent across every test at every fps breakpoint tested.

As a quick refresher, frametimes at different common fps breakpoints, plus the resulting 'macro queue' window with a micon, error off, 13 cast macro:
144fps = 6.94ms frametime = ~90ms window after ~14ms
120fps = 8.33~ms frametime = ~108ms window after ~17ms
60fps = 16.67~ms frametime = ~217ms window after ~33ms
30fps = 33.33~ms frametime = ~433ms window after ~67ms
15fps = 66.67~ms frametime = ~867ms window after ~133ms(!)

In my opinion, this isn't a good thing for macros at either end of the curve, and shatters some of the initial claims outright.

To get an acceptable "macro queue" time, you need 60fps or lower - but worse fps also means that multi-purpose macros with things like oGCDs get delayed, potentially for extreme lengths of time that can lead to undesirable clipping. With better fps, your "macro queue" time narrows - at 144fps your window is less than 1/5th the length of the standard queue's half-second - which can lead to oGCDs not on waits being brought up so close to the cast that they will likely fail on animation locks. Worse, because fps in this game isn't exactly predictable or reliably controllable, it's going to screw with muscle memory, too.

One factor I'm not able to test for at present is how this interfaces with ping. I have my theories from what I know and what I've heard, but... I prefer data.

[LilimoLimomo]

Due to the amount of miscommunication and misunderstanding in the replies, I took that as feedback that my initial post wasn't doing a good enough job of tackling this issue. I have entirely retooled my initial post to better discuss this issue as well as discuss macros in a more holistic way, so I hope you'll give it a fresh go!

In addition, special thanks to ForteNightshade for pointing out that my initial video contained an error that I hadn't noticed; thanks to their feedback, I was able to remake the video without said error. The new video is now linked instead of the erroneous one.

Thanks to everyone who has engaged with this post so far. I wouldn't have been able to make this a better post without your help!

[LilimoLimomo]

what you actually meant was, look, I know macros are bad, however, I have found a way to make them slightly less bad for people that need them for one reason or another.

This is not at all what I mean, though. I take full responsibility for communicating my ideas poorly in my initial post. I rewrote the entire thing nearly from scratch today with the intent of correcting misunderstandings like this. I hope you'll give it a read if you have the chance!

[LilimoLimomo]

Decided to take a deeper dive. Turns out it's a real pain to get millisecond precision from chat messages, but the result I got was kind of a no-brainer in retrospect: macros execute one line per frame. This was consistent across every test at every fps breakpoint tested.

As a quick refresher, frametimes at different common fps breakpoints, plus the resulting 'macro queue' window with a micon, error off, 13 cast macro:
144fps = 6.94ms frametime = ~90ms window after ~14ms
120fps = 8.33~ms frametime = ~108ms window after ~17ms
60fps = 16.67~ms frametime = ~217ms window after ~33ms
30fps = 33.33~ms frametime = ~433ms window after ~67ms
15fps = 66.67~ms frametime = ~867ms window after ~133ms(!)

In my opinion, this isn't a good thing for macros at either end of the curve, and shatters some of the initial claims outright.

To get an acceptable "macro queue" time, you need 60fps or lower - but worse fps also means that multi-purpose macros with things like oGCDs get delayed, potentially for extreme lengths of time that can lead to undesirable clipping. With better fps, your "macro queue" time narrows - at 144fps your window is less than 1/5th the length of the standard queue's half-second - which can lead to oGCDs not on waits being brought up so close to the cast that they will likely fail on animation locks. Worse, because fps in this game isn't exactly predictable or reliably controllable, it's going to screw with muscle memory, too.

One factor I'm not able to test for at present is how this interfaces with ping. I have my theories from what I know and what I've heard, but... I prefer data.

Thanks for taking the time to gather this great data! I've added that FPS affects the duration of the "macro queue" in my post, with credit to you.

[LilimoLimomo]

Their #rules section have a minutiae that specifically encourages theorycrafting & "challenging the meta" from its members.

Go try your luck.

Now that I've finished fine-tuning the original post to be more user-friendly, I've got the bandwidth to give this a try. I went to the Balance Discord and was able to find the section you cited above, but I didn't see anything in there about who to contact or where to propose these challenges. Any guidance would be appreciated, especially because I am 90% unfamiliar with how Discord works so even basic navigation is something I'm still getting accustomed to!

[Zeastria]

60% of my abilities are macro'ed..
Never had issues whatsoever..
But again i only macro heals abilities.

[Absurdity]

Why does it matter whether macros are good or bad? If a disabled person struggles to play without them isn’t it then better that they do use macros? Still seems like a net gain to me lol. I highly doubt anyone is turning up to savage/ultimates with their oGCDs macro’d to their basic attack

It matters because the initial premise wasn't that macros can work for people with disabilities, nobody is disputing that, do whatever you need to do to play the game comfortably.
The claim was that macros are not actually worse than just pressing the ability itself which has been proven false.

There are certain exceptions to this, Sprint for example has no skill-queueing so making a macro for it is actually an improvement as it reduces the likelyhood of your button press simply ghosting.

[LilimoLimomo]

The claim was that macros are not actually worse than just pressing the ability itself which has been proven false.

By chance have you had a chance to read my drastically re-worked initial post? I think if you read that you'll see that macro use isn't innately better or worse than just pressing the ability, but rather that there are advantages and disadvantages to each.

But one thing I wanted to make clear, and have provided evidence of, is that macros do not innately result in reduced casts/actions.