I know y'all don't wanna hear this...

[Payotz]

... But the combination of "by default, tanks should pull wall to wall" and "by default, healers should spend as much time DPSing as possible" is an absolutely toxic cocktail of unapproachability and is the reason you rarely see DPS as adventurer in need for 4-person roulettes.

Hard disagree. It's not the only reason, but it's a reason. I would argue that tanks and healers being boring as fuck is the main reason why not a lot of people are playing those roles in roulettes.

To be fair, I do expect new tanks and new healers trying to take baby steps into dungeons in low level dungeons ala ARR/HW but if you went through all 90 levels of a role without actually learning what your spells do, and you're now crying because you can't tank 2 mob packs (which is literally what wall-to-wall is lol), then I really don't think that's a me issue, that's you.

The jobs themselves are designed for healers DPSing and tanks wall to wall pulling. Hell, that's why the two roles have been dumbed down for 4-5 years now, just so new players can facilitate that playstyle. It's the main reason why healers have so many healing tools, and tanks have so much self-healing. This is like yelling at Titanfall players for expecting other Pilots in PvP to use their mechs. It's not a bonus, it's literally what's expected from you.

[Omedon]

. A lot of people just have tanxiety or healer anxiety no matter what.

You're right on this, I definitely take my comfort with tanking (which isn't universal) for granted and there are many sources of tanxiety that are valid. This whole mess is a big one though. It's the literal reason I won't queue healer in most roulettes.

[Omedon]

The jobs themselves are designed for healers DPSing and tanks wall to wall pulling.

I'm sorry but that's going to require an official source.

[Payotz]

I'm sorry but that's going to require an official source.

You literally just have to look at the jobs themselves. If tanks aren't designed for wall to wall pulls, then they're literally gonna have less mits than DRK at EW launch, and if the healers aren't designed for wall to walls, then they would only have weak GCD heals that take a lot of MP to cast just like WoW does.

You don't need to have an SE representative to tell you that the scissors they implemented into your mace is for cutting paper, it's literally just there for cutting paper.

[Myrany]

... But the combination of "by default, tanks should pull wall to wall" and "by default, healers should spend as much time DPSing as possible" is an absolutely toxic cocktail of unapproachability and is the reason you rarely see DPS as adventurer in need for 4-person roulettes. As long as you ask these two counterintuitive things, tanks will die, healers will feel put on the spot, and both will queue less and err on the side of DPSing, trading peace and absence of higher responsibility for a longer queue.

I know you're gonna get mad, but it's true.

Healing isn't hard. Tanking isn't hard. The way people expect these jobs to be played is counterintuitive and puts "respect for everyone's time" over approachable gameplay. There's no safe way to discuss in a tank's greeting macro that "I will pull fast until I die or have to use holmgang on trash" that doesn't put the healer on the spot, and honestly, the healer shouldn't have to tolerate "everyone's wall to wall until you say you're new or someone dies." And that doesn't even work because "this is a level 80+ dungeon, how are you new, you should know by now" still happens in a world where one can use duty support from the beginning to end of the game!

Look, just be kind, ok? And don't crack the whip or pull for the tank when he's trying to take it easy on a healer who clearly needs it, yet has to say "you can pull big" to cover their ass.

Overly DPSing healers are a bonus.

Wall to wall pulling is a bonus.

They're perks, not entitlements.

Just be kind. You're all so good at that when people conform to your expectations, maybe alter those just a bit to err on the side of kindness.

Thank you.

After getting chewed out in my third dungeon I quit healing for groups entirely. I needed another dungeon or 2 under my belt to really get comfortable enough with it for wall to walls. Eventually I will go back and finish leveling my healer through duty support but only because having it unlocked and not leveled bothers me (yeah I get OCD about that).

[Supersnow845]

People seem to take the advice and tunnel vision with it, you don’t have to be perfect, all you have to do is try, if you are trying double pulling for the first time and you miss a mob or two people won’t mind, people will mind outright refusing to even try to double pull, same as big pull healing, just give it a try, nobody will flame you for trying, people will flame you for rigidly adhering to the wrong playstyle (YPYT sylphies etc)

[ChrysOCE]

But what are we talking about here? Someone doing a 30-below dungeon? 50? 70? 90??

From 50, my expectation is w2w regardless. And that only increases the higher the level. Tanks have the mits, healers have the oGCDs, DPS have the abilities. If someone is not comfortable, they could always communicate to the party?

[Myrany]

But what are we talking about here? Someone doing a 30-below dungeon? 50? 70? 90??

From 50, my expectation is w2w regardless. And that only increases the higher the level. Tanks have the mits, healers have the oGCDs, DPS have the abilities. If someone is not comfortable, they could always communicate to the party?

My experience was in Qarn and the tank pulled something like 3 packs and I just couldn't keep him alive. Got chewed out. Finished the dungeon and never healed again. I was on a on lvl conjurer/white mage

Edit: Was I good healer? Obviously not. I was however trying to learn. I don't play games to take the kind of abuse that was put on me that day.

[Supersnow845]

My experience was in Qarn and the tank pulled something like 3 packs and I just couldn't keep him alive. Got chewed out. Finished the dungeon and never healed again. I was on a on lvl conjurer/white mage

Was the tank using their mitigation, was yours and the their gear level appropriate, were the DPS pressing buttons

Not saying you are wrong but in the incredibly rare situation someone will actively flame you in 14 there are many avenues to check before deciding that everything must be bad/your fault and giving up healing entirely

But I can totally understood being put off healers if that is your like 3rd experience, but I would check such things in the future

[MintnHoney]

*insert life lessons about assumptions and freshly squeezed ass here*