2 tanks and 4 dps can beat P9?

[Recon1o6]

Yes op, this is quite common. Had one last night where me and gnb (I was war) there was a short server wide lag spike near the end of p12n and all but us 3 died to the laser/line/chain to aoe explosion combo. We kept ourselves alive from 22% to 0 even with a vuln stack or two in the gnb case.

Let me just cut/paste something from my summary of healer issues thread

-The weapon's refrain and Epic of Alexander, have all been solo healed. Every other ultimate has been cleared without healers
-Eden's gate 4 (savage) was cleared without a healer when it was current content. https://youtu.be/zdDxjXMMWgU
-The 6.0 launch extreme trials have also been cleared without healers and with increasing frequency.
-Pandaemonium 1 normal was completed SOLO by 3 of the 4 tanks https://youtu.be/fFcZCEny4x4
-Pandaemonium 1 and 2 SAVAGE was completed WITHOUT healers when current https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRbvZJ-EU0U

[Aravell]

-The weapon's refrain and Epic of Alexander, have all been solo healed. Every other ultimate has been cleared without healers

But Dragonsong's Reprise was never cleared with no healers. Also, The Unending Coil was only cleared with 8 tanks AFAIK, never with the traditional no healer party setup. I agree healers are in a really bad spot, but let's not stretch reality to make it seem even more dire. The only ultimate that has been cleared on content with no healers is The Omega Protocol.

[Shinkuno]

But Dragonsong's Reprise was never cleared with no healers. Also, The Unending Coil was only cleared with 8 tanks AFAIK, never with the traditional no healer party setup. I agree healers are in a really bad spot, but let's not stretch reality to make it seem even more dire. The only ultimate that has been cleared on content with no healers is The Omega Protocol.

UCoB was cleared without healers too

wait until this guy finds out a group beat the new ultimate without healers

Hopefully someone will bring this up in an interview. Want to see was Yoshidas next excuse is for dissatisfied healers.

"Go play ultimate... without gear!" maybe?

[Tsumdere]

But Dragonsong's Reprise was never cleared with no healers. Also, The Unending Coil was only cleared with 8 tanks AFAIK, never with the traditional no healer party setup. I agree healers are in a really bad spot, but let's not stretch reality to make it seem even more dire. The only ultimate that has been cleared on content with no healers is The Omega Protocol.

I bet the only reason DSR hasn't been cleared without healers is the Intermission and keeping Haur alive. If it was removed, it likely would have been cleared with no healers. That's not a great reflection on the rest of the fight and the healing requirements.

3/5 ULTIMATES being cleared with no healers, the other two being cleared with 1 healer, and all savage fights being cleared with no healers. 12/14 of the EW high end fights can be cleared with no healers. That is actually pretty dire imo.

[Aravell]

3/5 ULTIMATES being cleared with no healers

Where do you guys keep getting 3/5 from? UCoB was cleared with 8 tanks, TOP was cleared with only tanks and DPS, the other 3 all had at least 1 healer.

For the record, I'm not saying to not complain or that the healer situation isn't bad, I'm just saying to stop lumping in decent fights with badly designed ones. TOP is the issue as it's the only ultimate that has been cleared with no healers on patch. We should be criticising the design that's bad, not everything adjacent to it too. UCoB has some bite still, they had to do with 8 tanks because damage is still high enough and tank healing is still low enough that DPS jobs will die at certain points. DSR also has some high damage choke points, will tank and DPS healing even cover Akh Morn's Edge in p7 where everyone is spread into their own towers? TOP's design is the main problem, mechanics in that fight aren't designed to kill you with damage if you do them right, tank healing is only one part of the issue here.

[Payotz]

I bet the only reason DSR hasn't been cleared without healers is the Intermission and keeping Haur alive. If it was removed, it likely would have been cleared with no healers.

I think it's more so because of Double Dragons. The DD phase is the only phase of any fight where tanks actually take huge amounts of auto attack damage to the point where cooldowns are actually really tight. Probably one of the most enjoyable phases in the game cause it forces you to lose uptime and not mindlessly burst on a single target, healers actually have to heal and tanks actually have to properly mitigate. Best design philosophy just because it's not afraid to fuck your rotation and muscle memory up.

Tangent but if they deleted every single Thordin phase and just replaced it with phases that has the same design principle as DD, DSR would probably be the best Ultimate.

[GoatOfWar]

Yes op, this is quite common. Had one last night where me and gnb (I was war) there was a short server wide lag spike near the end of p12n and all but us 3 died to the laser/line/chain to aoe explosion combo. We kept ourselves alive from 22% to 0 even with a vuln stack or two in the gnb case.

Let me just cut/paste something from my summary of healer issues thread

-The weapon's refrain and Epic of Alexander, have all been solo healed. Every other ultimate has been cleared without healers
-Eden's gate 4 (savage) was cleared without a healer when it was current content. https://youtu.be/zdDxjXMMWgU
-The 6.0 launch extreme trials have also been cleared without healers and with increasing frequency.
-Pandaemonium 1 normal was completed SOLO by 3 of the 4 tanks https://youtu.be/fFcZCEny4x4
-Pandaemonium 1 and 2 SAVAGE was completed WITHOUT healers when current https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRbvZJ-EU0U

P12s has been cleared without healers.
https://youtu.be/etKYa3K70ek

Just gonna point out that it's not Dark knight enabling this, because people thought it was SOOOO Overpowered for doing 2% more damage when that was all it had going.