I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Connor]

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I’m sorry, but thinking FFXI SCH existed just to deal damage with DOTs is simply untrue lol. It’s completely ignoring the vast majority of their other spells lol. Plus the fact that SCH in XI was overwhelming used as a support healer lol. It had DoTs, and they were crucial, but they were not the literal definition of the job lol. They also had a suite of powerful buffs. That’s like saying Black Mage’s historical identity is an ice Mage. It’s an aspect of the job undeniably, but it’s also just one aspect of it, and it’s inaccurate to act like that one half of the whole is the entire identity of the job.

It’s also difficult to deny that XIV’s Scholar was heavily impacted by their decision to make it split from Summoner. They literally admitted it was a huge mistake. If those DoTs were part of some bigger picture that’s absolutely crucial to Scholars, I still don’t understand where they are now? Why would they make Scholar a DoT Fiend then remove all its DoTs? Yeah maybe they’ve just done it out of spite because they hate the western healers or whatever…or maybe they just didn’t think the DoTs were the sole determiner of Scholar’s identity.

Plus, how do you reconcile the existence of old Summoner? Scholar was a DoT heavy spell caster that does big dick deeps…Summoner was a DoT heavy spell caster that does big dick deeps. If Scholar was supposed to be a super damage dealer, why is it a healer and why was it adjacent to a literal DoT dps? That still doesn’t add up

I mean, saying ‘buffing’ and ‘debuffing’ in ffxiv is doomed to forever be non-existent is one opinion I guess, they’re gonna have a hell of a time with Astrologian then lol. And Dancer, and Bard. I’d say that White Mage and Sage already exist for players who don’t want to support the party and just want to deal damage (in theory).

It’s the exact same with PvP? You’re saying that SCHs are there to spread death and destruction through DoTs, but if only they had another useful ability that could also be spread. Like…a damage buff…lol. It’s almost as if they’re intended to buff and debuff equally depending on the situation. Furthermore, if having a single DoT makes the job ‘a dot damage dealer’, how does having a single buff spell not make it ‘a buff healer’? Why does having a single DoT spell completely redefine the jobs identity, but having a single buff spell means absolutely nothing lol. How can you say you’re not being reductionist when you’re literally ignoring all but one of Scholar’s PvP abilities lol. Is Adloquium a DoT damage spell now? Did they give Deployment Tactics two charges just so you can spread DoTs twice in a row? Why doesn’t Scholar have a damage Lb in that case?

The logic you’re giving kind of supports the exact design for all healers we have now. Buffing and debuffing is a waste of time, healing is a waste lf time, anything except dps is a waste of time. Minimising all support and healing as close to absolute 0 just so you can focus purely on damage rotations sounds exceptionally boring to me…yet it’s literally the exact same design we’re using now, we just only have 2 damage buttons.

Also, isn’t it possible that they ‘didn’t know what to do with Scholar’ because they every time they try to move the job towards it’s intended playstyle it causes a ridiculous amount of backlash from some players? They can’t/don’t want to give it more DoTs, yet all anyone ever asks for is more DoTs lol. Of course they’d not know what to do then, because essentially it leaves them with nowhere else to take the job. If they go with what they think it should be the forums are drowned in ‘SAVE SCH’ posts. If they take it the direction the community wants, it becomes more dps focused than the literal dps lol.

That’s not accounting for the whole ‘damage potency’ issue. If Scholar gets 3-4 DoTs, either the potency of Biolysis is distributed equally amongst them, which leaves them working harder for the same amount. If each DoT gives Scholar additional potency, it then needs rebalancing or it becomes disproportionately stronger than the other three healers. I mean, how could a White Mage or Sage hope to compete with a Scholar dealing more damage than them, and having Chain and Expedient, and being completely immune to ever using GCDs on non-damage spells. And where would that leave Sage? (Besides the garbage lol)


Don’t you see that you’re saying we should literally keep it exactly how it is now? But it’ll all be ok because we’ll have 3 more DoTs lol. Except Scholar can’t have three DoTs because as aforementioned it would literally be managing it’s dps more than the actual dps jobs. Good luck convincing the developers otherwise lol
Again, the only remaining DoT class in the game has 2 DoTs, reapplies them with a single spell, no Bane, and they do not interact with its toolkit. Yet we want Scholar to pumping out giant damage with a slew of DoTs, spread them, extend them, and we want it to be able to just keep healing through the entirety of content with Recitation - Indomitability lol.

[Nizzi]

I’m sorry, but thinking FFXI SCH existed just to deal damage with DOTs is simply untrue lol. It’s completely ign g the vast majority of their other spells lol.

Please show me where I said FFXI SCH existed just to do that? I said they're apart of its historic identity in combat. This is a thread discussing healer DPS rotations being boring in combat.

It’s also difficult to deny that XIV’s Scholar was heavily impacted by their decision to make it split from Summoner. They literally admitted it was a huge mistake. If those DoTs were part of some bigger picture that’s absolutely crucial to Scholars, I still don’t understand where they are now? Why would they make Scholar a DoT Fiend then remove all its DoTs? Yeah maybe they’ve just done it out of spite because they hate the western healers or whatever…or maybe they just didn’t think the DoTs were the sole determiner of Scholar’s identity.
If Scholar was supposed to be a super damage dealer, why is it a healer and why was it adjacent to a literal DoT dps? That still doesn’t add up

"where are the dots if they were apart of scholar's identity? also they try to ''move it towards its intended playstyle'' but never end up actually doing that, the intended playstyle is totally the one i want and SE agrees with me and it wasnt the one the job was designed with from the start"

okay man lol

I mean, saying ‘buffing’ and ‘debuffing’ in ffxiv is doomed to forever be non-existent is one opinion I guess, they’re gonna have a hell of a time with Astrologian then lol. And Dancer, and Bard. I’d say that White Mage and Sage already exist for players who don’t want to support the party and just want to deal damage (in theory).

Yeah, they are. Do you think AST has "interesting" buffs? They're all flat damage buffs except for Astrodyne, can you guess why that is? Because people don't like it when someone else messes up their rotation or changes their control of situations. Even minor abilities like Minne or Paean on BRD do not make it interesting nor do they change anything about how it plays. Like cool, a BRD in the party can save a healer a total of 2 GCDs across P12sP2 if they want to take over Esuna duty for the two times a healer has to use Esuna in that encounter. It's still just an oGCD that doesn't change anything. All of BRD's rotational buffs are just "does x% type of damage", that's BORING. All of DNC's are the same way, flat DMG increase or a 2m crit/ dhit buff. Do you think that they will completely change how the game works and go back to a way of buffing and debuffing that was either largely hated or largely useless? Further, even if they did, you haven't answered how any of that changes the fact that BROIL SPAM IS BORING!

The logic you’re giving kind of supports the exact design for all healers we have now. Buffing and debuffing is a waste of time, healing is a waste lf time, anything except dps is a waste of time. Minimising all support and healing as close to absolute 0 just so you can focus purely on damage rotations sounds exceptionally boring to me…yet it’s literally the exact same design we’re using now, we just only have 2 damage buttons.

I never said any of that? You use your buffs at the same time in an encounter, your party uses their debuffs at the same set times in the fight (Feint, Addle, Reprisal), you shield if you will die to the hit without one, otherwise you heal after it with oGCDs. You use certain CDs at heavy damage moments and all the while, you are spamming your damage button. That doesn't change if SCH gets Miasma and more back. All it does is give SCH more engagement again and cuts up the Broil spam.

Also, isn’t it possible that they ‘didn’t know what to do with Scholar’ because they every time they try to move the job towards it’s intended playstyle it causes a ridiculous amount of backlash from some players? They can’t/don’t want to give it more DoTs, yet all anyone ever asks for is more DoTs lol. Of course they’d not know what to do then, because essentially it leaves them with nowhere else to take the job. If they go with what they think it should be the forums are drowned in ‘SAVE SCH’ posts. If they take it the direction the community wants, it becomes more dps focused than the literal dps lol.

Sounds like they should just return SCH to how it was, and not some ""intended playstyle"" that it has literally never had in this game? These jobs should be designed so they're fun for the people who main them. I don't want SCH to change to suit people who don't play the job or who just play it casually. I play this job in every bit of content I do, of course I have a personal investment in wanting it to be as good as possible. And "more dps focused than the literal dps"? Do you think replacing a Broil cast with a Miasma cast is some gigabrained, galaxy tier struggle of herculean proportions? It's not.

That’s not accounting for the whole ‘damage potency’ issue. If Scholar gets 3-4 DoTs, either the potency of Biolysis is distributed equally amongst them, which leaves them working harder for the same amount. If each DoT gives Scholar additional potency, it then needs rebalancing or it becomes disproportionately stronger than the other three healers. I mean, how could a White Mage or Sage hope to compete with a Scholar dealing more damage than them, and having Chain and Expedient, and being completely immune to ever using GCDs on non-damage spells. And where would that leave Sage? (Besides the garbage lol)

SCH already only deals more damage than SGE or WHM in optimized environments that can take advantage of Chain. Outside of that, it does less damage and SGE/WHM are better in unoptimized groups. Also "completely immune to ever using GCDs"? That isn't true at all? I use Succor like 40+ times in DSR.

Don’t you see that you’re saying we should literally keep it exactly how it is now? But it’ll all be ok because we’ll have 3 more DoTs lol. Except Scholar can’t have three DoTs because as aforementioned it would literally be managing it’s dps more than the actual dps jobs. Good luck convincing the developers otherwise lol

Yeah I actually like how SCH heals right now, and the DoTs would slot back in effortlessly and only replace Broil casts, so that's what I want. I don't want SCH to change radically, I like Scholar and play it in high end content. Again, "managing its dps" because of added DoTs is ridiculous and it says a lot if you think that replacing a Broil cast with a DoT is harder than "actual dps jobs".

Again, the only remaining DoT class in the game has 2 DoTs, reapplies them with a single spell, no Bane, and they do not interact with its toolkit. Yet we want Scholar to pumping out giant damage with a slew of DoTs, spread them, extend them, and we want it to be able to just keep healing through the entirety of content with Recitation - Indomitability lol.

Do you notice how you're the only one mentioning anything about "giant damage" or the numbers? Nobody is asking for that, they're asking for ENGAGEMENT and for the job to go back to the engagement it once had. Also:
"we want it to be able to just keep healing through the entirety of content with Recitation - Indomitability lol"

That isn't true at all and doesn't reflect how SCH heals, if you think it's only healing things with Recit Indom every 90s I would kindly ask that you play SCH in things above alliance raids and normal raids.