People Enjoy hard Games

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Instead of gaslighting, how about somebody explain what’s the benefit of making an already highly accessible, easy contents even easier? Outside of being able to sleep through the raid while 23 other do the heavy lifting, that is.

[VelKallor]

what evidence do you have the average person finds sastasha engaging

Never said that. Stop inventing what i didnt say if you dont mind.

i said I found it engaging. What others find engaging I dont know. I havent asked them. Have you?

I presented mine

Noted

and a lot of my friends perspectives on this

Really?

Then get them to come here and post their own opinions. If their opinion matters that much, then let them come here and say so themselves.

Did they ask you to speak for them? Did they say you could speak on their behalf?

I highly doubt it.

Instead of gaslighting, how about somebody explain what’s the benefit of making an already highly accessible, easy contents even easier? Outside of being able to sleep through the raid while 23 other do the heavy lifting, that is.

Well seeing as no one has ever said this anywhere, whats to explain?

Okay:Ill ask the one question I am betting you will either ignore, dodge or just refuse to answer

Lets just assume for the sake of argument that this change is made.

And it backfires on you.

Badly.

People hit that brick wall in CT and quit. They get to 50 , see they are gated out of the rest of the MSQ and walk away. Your intended change has the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE effect of what you want it to do.

Worst case scenario. ( If you havent considered that, you should. Anyone with half a brain inculcates that into planning )

Then what?

[Supersnow845]

Sweetie nobody believes your old “I’m just saying my opinion I’m not speaking for everyone” when almost every post you make you talk as if you hold the majority opinion that we have to disprove or your are correct by default, you’ve done is all throughout this thread with your whole “why won’t you tell me why CT should be returned to its original difficulty” yet you will offer no reason for why it shouldn’t, because you just assume that you are the “default” opinion and are right unless proven credibly wrong

And as I told you they quit the game because the first 200 hours are boring as hell and they decided they didn’t want to play it, so for every person you gain by making the game so easy a toddler can finish it you are losing people who don’t want content as boring as nerfed crystal tower, so yes they are fine with me speaking on their behalf because they aren’t coming back to argue on the forums with you, what about you go round up some of these mythical people who are being hard walled by OG crystal tower, are you allowed to speak on their behalf

[VelKallor]

Sweetie nobody believes your old “I’m just saying my opinion I’m not speaking for everyone” when almost every post you make you talk as if you hold the majority opinion

I have never stated that. Anywhere.

that we have to disprove or your are correct by default,

Prove to me this change is needed, necessary and wont be a detriment. You havent so far.

you’ve done is all throughout this thread with your whole “why won’t you tell me why CT should be returned to its original difficulty”

Its a valid question and one you have consistently failed to answer. BTW, this is the kind of question that gets asked in game design conferences.

yet you will offer no reason for why it shouldn’t, because you just assume that you are the “default” opinion and are right unless proven credibly wrong

Show me how and why this wanted change is necessary, essential, wont be a detriment, wont backfire.

ill ask again

Lets just assume for the sake of argument that this change is made.

And it backfires on you.

Badly.

People hit that brick wall in CT and quit. They get to 50 , see they are gated out of the rest of the MSQ and walk away. Your intended change has the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE effect of what you want it to do.

Worst case scenario. ( If you havent considered that, you should. Anyone with half a brain inculcates that into planning )

Then what?

And as I told you they quit the game because the first 200 hours are boring as hell

Uh huh....

you are losing people who don’t want content as boring as nerfed crystal tower

We are? Who says? How do you know this?

so yes they are fine with me speaking on their behalf because they aren’t coming back to argue on the forums with you

If they cant or wont speak for themselves thats their issue. No they probably arent...and I doubt you do.

, what about you go round up some of these mythical people who are being hard walled by OG crystal tower, are you allowed to speak on their behalf

How about you answer what i asked earlier. How do you know what you propose will be received well? How do you know it wont backfire? You dont...and thats your problem. You refuse to consider what the long term consequences may be.

Still waiting for your answer.

[Supersnow845]

generally people understand that you can imply something overtly without stating it, hopefully you learn this skill in time

I have offered reasons why the change should be reverted
-it was designed that way so that an average party would see most of the mechanics
-current CT presents a bad front for newer people who want some engagement and presents a poor first experience as an alliance raid
-placing old CT in ARR better slopes the difficulty of the MSQ now that steps of faith has been removed and chrysalis has been nerfed

Just because you don’t like those reasons doesn’t mean they aren’t valid reasons, why will you present no reason why it shouldn’t be changed back other than deferring to these supposed masses of people that would be walled by CT (while also telling me I can’t use my friends as examples in the same comment)

Okay let’s engage with your little scenario; someone does old crystal tower and even with a party containing statistically at least half vets they wipe and wipe and wipe and physically cannot finish the content (even ignoring the fact that this doesn’t happen on actually moderately difficult alliance raids like TAPB), they do it again with another party of vets and they wipe again and somehow disband a second time so this person thinks the content is impossible and leaves. I’d this absolutely mythical situation happens then yea I would be in favour of re-nerfing CT, but don’t use this as a gotcha because we both know this situation would literally never happen; I don’t know why you seem to believe so strongly that a single player is going to be walled by a 24 man raid that statistically probably has at least 5 legends in it but it wouldn’t happen, in this scenario you are more likely to get walled by trying to do holminster switch as a cure 1 spammer because the game has given you no feedback this isn’t the correct playstyle

[Shinkuno]

"more interesting" to WHOM? You are dealing with a huge playerbase and a wide variety of people with varying skill and ability. How do you intend to compensate for that variation? You know little to NOTHING on game design, so maybe you need to come back with a more detailed precis on how this change will affect everyone. Not just what YOU want.

Sorry but this has nothing to do with varying skill and ability. If anyone needs "go afk and still complete" mode for content then they should just quit gaming. They dont want a game, they want a movie.

There are people that think Super Mario is challenging and they would never complete anything beyond that. And thats fine. But as it stands, the game currently isnt even a game anymore. Mobile games are harder than FF14 at this point. There is no reason someone should be able to clear even story missions by only pressing their lv1 healing spell. This doesnt work in any other JRPG which defenders always like to cite. Not even in any other FF game.

You dont even need to do anything challenging to unlock new tools... you get them just by leveling. If someone refuses to use the tools that the game literally throws at them, they SHOULD NOT be allowed to pass any content. Every content in the game should require the whole group to use the tools they have available at that level. They dont need to have an optimized rotation no, they can even be allowed to drop their combo every now and then. But only using and spamming your lv1 skills should not allow you to clear / be carried.

If you can name me any other FF game not named FF16 (because its designed the same way FF14 is) that allows you to just spam the one lv1 move and clear the game id really like to know. And we talk about intentional game design here. Not "abuse this exploit to cheese the game with a lv1 weapon" kind of stuff.

[ChrysOCE]

Ill say this again. CT is story content and you MUST address said content in that context. So far all I am seeing is you wanting things made "harder" for no real reason or stated actual purpose other than what you want.

See the bigger picture. Then come talk to me.

Come talk to you? Nah, not with the attitude coming across. There's no convincing either side.

Square has put mechanics in the game, so they obviously feel those mechanics are suitable for the player level and progression - whether it
s CT, Final Day, or any other content. Lowering the ilvl sync, so that we actually see mechanics in fights isn't changing the design. It's not changing mechanics. It's not gatekeeping content.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I find it pitifully hilarious that one would try to bring up a hypothetical situation where CT Raid is walling off players from progressing their MSQ when they never even come close being that bad in their OG state at its inception. People weather through that OG CT Raid just fine. Outcries might happen (lol Shinryu Normal & Heroes' Gauntlet) but again, people weather through just fine, and that's what would likely happen again.

If we're talking about something like OG Steps of Faith at its inception, then I could see why they're nerfing it (in)directly. But OG CT Raid? Lmfao c'mon. What a fearmongering.

[VelKallor]

I have offered reasons why the change should be reverted

No you havent. All I see is your opinions...with nothing to back them up.

-it was designed that way so that an average party would see most of the mechanics

Okay...youre an expert on game design then?.

-current CT presents a bad front for newer people who want some engagement and presents a poor first experience as an alliance raid

This conclusion is based on...what exactly? What metrics? What feedback? From whom? When?

-placing old CT in ARR better slopes the difficulty of the MSQ now that steps of faith has been removed and chrysalis has been nerfed

So now we are onto Chrysalis too. I see.

When you are prepared AND ready to address the critical question I asked , we can resume this discussion. Until then, we are done talking.

The question I asked you is the same one any game designer, planner asks every single time a change is proposed.

I don’t know why you seem to believe so strongly that a single player is going to be walled by a 24 man raid that statistically probably has at least 5 legends in it but it wouldn’t happen, in this scenario you are more likely to get walled by trying to do holminster switch as a cure 1 spammer because the game has given you no feedback this isn’t the correct playstyle

Who did Holminster switch spamming cure 1? When? On what server?

Dont bother answering because we both know it never happened.

but don’t use this as a gotcha because we both know this situation would literally never happen;

Do I really need to remind you of what the law of unintended consequences is?

You cant or wont answer basic questions, you dont have any data or proof for your so called "facts'" and when called on to prove that your intended change wont be a major misstep you admit you havent considered it because "it cant happen".

"That cant happen"?

Famous last words.

Discussion OVER.

[Jojoya]

I will agree with part of this because I'm new and less than 12 months but I would like to say I wish they made leveling dungeons a little more punishing for failing mechanics so that way it's a better teacher for new players. I'm sure many people that want to just get their dungeons done will hate that but I would be all for it

Duty Support already does that. The healer NPC might heal you or use Esuna if you have a debuff that can be removed but if you die, it means starting over. NPC DPS means the dungeon will take longer, which gives the player more time to learn the mechanics.

As they shift the game away from MMORPG to a "RPG that you can play solo or with friends", I expect more new players to be using Duty Support for most of the MSQ.

Instead of gaslighting, how about somebody explain what’s the benefit of making an already highly accessible, easy contents even easier? Outside of being able to sleep through the raid while 23 other do the heavy lifting, that is.

No one here is suggesting that.

What's in question is the content that SE did choose to change at some point or another. If the result was a nerf, then it happened because they saw too many players struggling with the content on certain fights and/or certain mechanics. It's not something that SE does on a whim.

The other issue is ilvl sync. Sometimes SE is allowing the content to get easier over time through increase to ilvl as opposed to changing mechanics or boss damage/HP. But power creep over the course of the post-MSQ in an expansion is very noticeable. Is it really too much for some of the earlier post-MSQ content released?

For Crystal Tower, I'd pretty much agree that is it. Some groups will kill the last boss before first timer manage to get out of the cutscenes and those cutscenes aren't particularly long. World of Darkness could probably be left alone - those fights have a little bit of bite left in them. But LotA should cap ilvl at 90 and ST should cap it at 110. That's still a lot of room for power creep to give the content a little bit of a nerf without taking away all the bite.