The Single Most powerful *thing* in FFXIV?

[Absimiliard]

The WoL is a difficult one to gauge for a number of reasons, with and without allies. We're told by the story they're nearly always holding back, oft times even against foes one would be forgiven for thinking worthy of maximum effort.

[SilverArrow20XX]

Not a single entity exactly, but Alphatron, as controlled by Sir is probably the most powerful force the universe has ever seen.
Overwhelming power, adaptability, and replication speed.
They should also be immune to Dynamis due to the absence of emotions, excluding Sir.
In the end, they only stopped because Sir himself ordered a permanent standby because he was depressed. Later implied to have been wiped out by Meteion even though that makes no sense.

[Absimiliard]

In the end, they only stopped because Sir himself ordered a permanent standby because he was depressed. Later implied to have been wiped out by Meteion even though that makes no sense.

The Omicrons are explicitly stated to still exist in a dormant state. We even see an attempt in Ultima Thule to contact them, the understanding there being the signal would in all likelihood bring them back online. They're very different (read as: unapologetic killing machines) from the faux Omicrons players encounter in UT. Odds quite heavily favor the most powerful members of their species still existing, although I suspect they wouldn't even match up to Omega on an individual basis. After all, Omega managed to evolve well beyond both its initial programming and nearly every conceivable design limitation.

You are correct that as a whole civilization the Omicrons are indisputably very powerful, but they're strong in the "this is a nigh-unstoppable swarm of death with at or near zero capacity for compassion" kind of way, not in the raw power kind of way.

[Cleretic]

You are correct that as a whole civilization the Omicrons are indisputably very powerful, but they're strong in the "this is a nigh-unstoppable swarm of death with at or near zero capacity for compassion" kind of way, not in the raw power kind of way.

Hits a similar issue to Meteion. Like, at what point does this stop being 'the most powerful [individual] thing' and starts becoming 'the most powerful group'?

Are the Borg considered the most powerful single thing in Star Trek, because they're a unified collective?

[Absimiliard]

Hits a similar issue to Meteion. Like, at what point does this stop being 'the most powerful [individual] thing' and starts becoming 'the most powerful group'?

Are the Borg considered the most powerful single thing in Star Trek, because they're a unified collective?

There's also the whole specialization thing to consider, as you mentioned earlier. Meteion is quite powerful as a collective, but what made her truly dangerous was her extremely specialized nature. The Borg, I suspect, possessed shades of this as well. They were unified in purpose and thought by the Borg Queen, but it was their highly specialized biology and technology that permitted them to so effectively consume worlds. Ironically, it was those specialized natures that would ultimately lead to their undoing; Meteion defeated through a mixture of strong positive emotions and aether, and the Borg torn asunder from the inside by a pathogen that targeted the hivemind itself through the Queen.

So, then, it comes down to context:
Do we look to ascertain the single greatest raw power overall? If yes, then it's probably Zodiark or Meteion.
Do we look at destructive potential? If so, it's probably Meteion. After all, she and her siblings/other selves basically killed the universe.
Do we consider groups a "single thing" for our purposes? If yes, it's probably still Zodiark or Meteion. Zodiark being made up of innumerable souls, and Meteion being... well, several very depressed birds. Potentially the Omicrons if we're only looking at the capacity to bring death, as they appear to have been capable of reaching and killing pretty much anything they felt threatened by (which was everything they ever came into contact with).

I'd argue Meteion potentially meets the criteria for the first simply due to having had all that time to gorge herself upon the despair of innumerable dying civilizations. Dynamis may not be as potent a force as aether on a 1 to 1, but there comes a point where sheer quantity of Dynamis could potentially overtake the ridiculous amount of aether contained within Zodiark.

[Carin-Eri]

The Omicrons are explicitly stated to still exist in a dormant state. We even see an attempt in Ultima Thule to contact them, the understanding there being the signal would in all likelihood bring them back online. They're very different (read as: unapologetic killing machines) from the faux Omicrons players encounter in UT. Odds quite heavily favor the most powerful members of their species still existing, although I suspect they wouldn't even match up to Omega on an individual basis. After all, Omega managed to evolve well beyond both its initial programming and nearly every conceivable design limitation.

You are correct that as a whole civilization the Omicrons are indisputably very powerful, but they're strong in the "this is a nigh-unstoppable swarm of death with at or near zero capacity for compassion" kind of way, not in the raw power kind of way.

I actually hope that they touch on that story again at some point. I mean, if something did 'wake' them they'd undoubtedly resume the directive they were following before going dormant. And they'd very likely be just as dangerous as they ever were. The question is, if they found their way to Etheirys, would Omega be able to reason with them?

[SilverArrow20XX]

The Omicrons are explicitly stated to still exist in a dormant state. We even see an attempt in Ultima Thule to contact them, the understanding there being the signal would in all likelihood bring them back online.

Wasn't it the opposite?
The Omicrons on Ultima Thule received a signal from what seems to be the real Stigma-1, which activated the UT Stigma-4.
Or was there another scene I forgot about.

But yeah. That's why it makes no sense that Alphatron keeps getting mentioned in game as a place destroyed by Meteion is what I meant.

I actually hope that they touch on that story again at some point. I mean, if something did 'wake' them they'd undoubtedly resume the directive they were following before going dormant. And they'd very likely be just as dangerous as they ever were. The question is, if they found their way to Etheirys, would Omega be able to reason with them?

I really want to take Omega to UT for a quest. I thought for sure he'd be involved in the tribe quest.

[UkcsAlias]

We're told Zodiark did not siphon aether from the planet. He instead utilized the aether of the ancient souls within him, with the caveat being he would not completely drain them. This was possible due to the sheer volume of aether made available to him by those sacrificed. He could draw from them without tapping into their spiritual aether, which meant their souls weren't at risk of erasure.

I suspect that siphoning simply wasnt relevant to protect against dynamis anyway. Zodiark was summoned with the full intention of protection and restoring the old world, as we know, primals take over that intention from the creator. As long as zodiark was alive, that intention is basicly a dynamis shield (the motivation to survive is baked in), to destroy the planet and its aether, zodiark must be destroyed through dynamis, but as primal he is immune.

While the ascians wouldnt have known this, this intention still gave immunity and to them proved their theory. But it would not costing any aether in the process here because as the negative effects from dynamis would never get through zodiarks. And zodiarks intent is still protecting the world (as that was needed to restore it).

But while zodiarks intention wasnt siphoning the aether from its people. It had no care for the current state of people, and would be willing to siphon all of it away for the sake of restoring the old world. And this is where i think zodiark has the potential for being extremely powerful. It could decide to consume all the aether, and then use that again to summon the world to its old state through creation magic.

[Absimiliard]

I suspect that siphoning simply wasnt relevant to protect against dynamis anyway. Zodiark was summoned with the full intention of protection and restoring the old world, as we know, primals take over that intention from the creator. As long as zodiark was alive, that intention is basicly a dynamis shield (the motivation to survive is baked in), to destroy the planet and its aether, zodiark must be destroyed through dynamis, but as primal he is immune.

Siphoning wasn't even part of Zodiark's design. At its core, it was little more than an ultracomplex application of the creation magics utilized by ancient society on a daily basis. The aether consumption shown in later primals was intentional; the Ascians taught people flawed derivatives of creation, which in turn begat flawed creations.

While the ascians wouldnt have known this, this intention still gave immunity and to them proved their theory. But it would not costing any aether in the process here because as the negative effects from dynamis would never get through zodiarks. And zodiarks intent is still protecting the world (as that was needed to restore it).

The intention itself had nothing to do with it. It was how Zodiark enacted this intention that made the difference. What protected the world was an enormous shield of dark aspected aether, which Zodiark maintained throughout the ages. Aether and dynamis are for the most part incompatible, the former being quite detrimental to the latter. That said, it's been proven a sufficient amount of dynamis can overcome this deficiency and act upon aether without being undone in return. We don't really see it touched on too much in-game, but there is an implication the shield would have failed eventually. No way of knowing when, of course. Probably thousands more years.

But while zodiarks intention wasnt siphoning the aether from its people. It had no care for the current state of people, and would be willing to siphon all of it away for the sake of restoring the old world. And this is where i think zodiark has the potential for being extremely powerful. It could decide to consume all the aether, and then use that again to summon the world to its old state through creation magic.

It did in fact care for the souls within it. One of the conditions set when they created Zodiark was to safeguard those souls until such time as they could be brought back. The ancients had no intention of leaving their friends and loved ones in limbo forever. Additionally, those souls were in part responsible for Zodiark's instincts. Absent a heart, all it had left to guide it were its programming and the collective desire of those souls to see the world saved.

[thegreatonemal]

Siphoning wasn't even part of Zodiark's design. At its core, it was little more than an ultracomplex application of the creation magics utilized by ancient society on a daily basis. The aether consumption shown in later primals was intentional; the Ascians taught people flawed derivatives of creation, which in turn begat flawed creations.



The intention itself had nothing to do with it. It was how Zodiark enacted this intention that made the difference. What protected the world was an enormous shield of dark aspected aether, which Zodiark maintained throughout the ages. Aether and dynamis are for the most part incompatible, the former being quite detrimental to the latter. That said, it's been proven a sufficient amount of dynamis can overcome this deficiency and act upon aether without being undone in return. We don't really see it touched on too much in-game, but there is an implication the shield would have failed eventually. No way of knowing when, of course. Probably thousands more years.



It did in fact care for the souls within it. One of the conditions set when they created Zodiark was to safeguard those souls until such time as they could be brought back. The ancients had no intention of leaving their friends and loved ones in limbo forever. Additionally, those souls were in part responsible for Zodiark's instincts. Absent a heart, all it had left to guide it were its programming and the collective desire of those souls to see the world saved.

Where did you get that last bit from? The people that gave themselves to Zodiark didn't expect to come back. Zodiark didn't need to use their souls because it could use the vast amount of aether their bodies normally carry.