People Enjoy hard Games

[Supersnow845]

The biggest content people engage with outside of the core roulettes is Bozja (over 50% of people have step foot inside Bozja at one time or another), so yes the core of the playerbase lies in that “I don’t want to turn my brain off but extreme is a bit too complex to regularly do” which field content fills

Turbo casuals just seem to think it’s only people who do savage that want more content harder than normal raids and that all content should be savage level for some reason despite their being no justification for the existence of that mindset

[VelKallor]

What in the name of the Twelve is a "turbo casual"?

[SargeTheSeagull]

There's a fine line between hard and too hard. I like games that are hard enough for me to pay attention and actually try but not so hard that it takes me dozens of hours to accomplish stuff. That's why I don't raid anymore (well that and recent raid design has been horrifically boring). That said, too easy is certainly a thing and 14 is absolutely too easy nowadays. Jobs are way too simple and dungeons/normal trials are so easy you almost cannot fail. There is a solid middle ground to be found and 14 was on it for a long time, until early ShB really. Just make me try a little bit, just a bit, and I'll be happy.

[Shurrikhan]

What in the name of the Twelve is a "turbo casual"?

In other MMOs, at least: Someone who expects things to be doable with minimal chance or severity of being slowed by anything, and would rather lobby for the removal of such slow-downs (through content, kit, or broad mechanical changes) than learn how to deal with them (even if that learning process is pretty darn painless by even an average "casual" [in terms of engagement with optimization/learning] player's opinion).

Haven't seen the term often enough here to guess at its specific denotation for/in XIV specifically.

[VelKallor]

In other MMOs, at least: Someone who expects things to be doable with minimal chance or severity of being slowed by anything, and would rather lobby for the removal of such slow-downs (through content, kit, or broad mechanical changes) than learn how to deal with them (even if that learning process is pretty darn painless by even an average "casual" [in terms of engagement with optimization/learning] player's opinion).

Haven't seen the term often enough here to guess at its specific denotation for/in XIV specifically.

Well that definitely isnt me. I dont mind a challenge, Im also not a fan of brick walls. Somewhere in the middle makes sense to me.

Shurrikan: You may disagree with this approach but bear with me: I normally do ALL solo instances on normal, if I find one is really annoying me, THEN I go to very easy mode and thats usually after two or three tries. My rationale that this is STORY mode content, so its also solo and not group content...what I am highlighting is my earlier point..story MSQ should be doable with a challenge BUT not a brick wall.

I mentioned In From the Cold earlier, Ive done that four times on different alts, I did it ONCE on very easy, the next few times I did it on normal because I knew what the hell I was doing. My primary issue with that specific instance was with its design. AT least give a player some kind of hint where the hell to START looking. No need for "hand holding" BUT a simple hint like " You see disturbed ground and debris leading to the southwest"

Thats not "dumbing it down" thats telling a player the bare minimum as to where they might want to look. Drop the timer down to one hour and FOCUS ON THE GAMEPLAY elements to make the entire instance more fun and engaging.

People DO stress when they see the timer ticking down, give them MORE time to absorb the atmosphere,. to get a feel of where they are and "Oh God this place has been trashed, all these people"..you are in a wrecked, war torn city that once was the capital of a mighty empire, let them get immersed in the actual area which adds to the gameplay element.

They will remember it not just for "I got this done" and more to "Now I see what happened here and this is terrifying.." you arent the warrior of light, your powers are gone, you are alone..feel the difference, think maybe a second of the man whose body you now inhabit and wonder who they were and what happened to THEM...it adds to the flavour and feel of the entire scenario.

There also the twisted feeling that you are ( and this was what I felt ) desecrating this mans body for Fandaniels sick agenda. Whoever he was, he deserved better than this violation of his rest.

[Supersnow845]

^which as has been discussed ad nauseum is what almost everyone on here wants, regardless of your actual opinions on Bozja Bozja is the level of content we are missing in this game

Admittedly the title of this thread is probably flawed but also if anyone new to this thread did some remote reading that’s all people want, but people seem to read the title then go “acshooly sweaty we don’t all play ultimate stop trying to hard wall me in the MSQ” despite nobody having that opinion

[DiaDeem]

Very quickly: See Pokemon and Mario Kart's numbers. People enjoy both hard and easy games.

I don't really care if XIV's MSQ remains as simple as it has been as of late. I'm not sure how many people were here for OG Steps of Faith, but people were locked out of Ishgard by a fight that nowadays may qualify as EX, and I'm not sure the MSQ should have stuff like that... I guess it's open for debate. What I want is just more midcore content, and maybe review the rewards for EX/Criterion/SVG/Ultimate.

Just my two cents.

[Shurrikhan]

Well that definitely isnt me. I dont mind a challenge, Im also not a fan of brick walls. Somewhere in the middle makes sense to me.

Same here, depending on what we call that "middle". I enjoy min-maxing to an extent (I like perfecting my rotation, but don't mind flubbing it occasionally by trying something harder, and would never give up my Skill Speed), but don't really care for rote memorization/execution of mechanics, and therefore am not about to get a kick out of Ultimate (this particular character has never even touched it). I preferred M+, especially when things are still being figured out early in a given season, over Mythic or even most Heroic raiding, for instance, and could still enjoy most Normal bosses if helping friends.

We could probably both fit either among "casual" (in terms of preferred content / extent of engagement, not just hours played) or "average"/"normal" players, depending simply on whether the term "average" is used up on describing which span of players is most populous or instead describes the median group along that spectrum of typically preferred extent of engagement with mechanics and content, both. (That is, admittedly, a bit of a conflation since one could enjoy min-maxing dungeons or being carried through Savage, but it's a decently useful bundling on the whole.)

Which just means that the reference is about some portion of players who have an even narrower span of engagement with the game itself (not necessarily with "meta-" or "community-born" content) they like to work within, or they have some different approach to how their desire ought to be supported.

"Turbo-casual" in most MMOs is a bit of a known paradox, like demanding little time taken to reach BiS... all so that one can then go back to grinding rewardless side-content that didn't need the gear in the first place. Such a player might not be any more casual than most; it's more the combination of "Give me what I want now" and "if it's not specifically in my interest, it's a waste" that differentiates them, a bit like a merely political person and an extremist ***hole.

Food for thought: A "turbo-hardcore" (though I've never seen the term), by contrast, would probably be like someone who wants to restrict all means of broadly applicable strength/gear progression to the content most unique to them and to restrict that content's accessibility to only those who engage with it to the same extent they enjoy, and who would consider any content made outside of their interests to be a waste.

I've seen both over the last decade or so, though admittedly more of the former, especially so long as lower-end content still has room for greater engagement.

On which note... XIV is really not in a great spot, in that one increasingly has increasingly needed to seek out stratified (e.g., "hardcore"-only) content to get to higher levels of engagement, which then puts the desires of "casual" players more at odds with "hardcore" (and even "midcore") players.

After all, if all groups can clear yet, simultaneously, all groups can put in additional effort for at least decent reward, both those with a narrow range of enjoyable engagement and those who need more total engagement to feel stimulated can be satisfied. It will inevitably be worth it to, on one end, have some content that everyone can clear but not everyone will be able to be sufficiently engaged by and, on the other, have some content that not everyone can clear but with room enough that everyone could, in time, be sufficiently engaged by, but if your most mainstay content doesn't even have the room enough to engage the vast majority of players, that's going to get wasteful and, ultimately, make providing sufficient content for those increasingly split groups that much less efficient.

[VelKallor]

By the way, one last point. This was my wish alone, but after that instance, i would have liked a small cutscene of granting that poor soldier a decent burial. We should have knelt and at least paid our respect to whoever that was, showing that we, unlike Fandanel, had some decency and compassion.

[Rolder50]

"The game has repeatedly doubled down on making itself easier because it has been under the false impression that people calling for an easier game were in fact the majority."

I swear...how are these type of players so delusional to think they are "the silent majority" when every factor of evidence proves otherwise. It take literally a basic google search to get the facts!



From the 187k players whos info was submitted, Savage raiders only make up only 25% of the playerbase. You are not the majority!
Look up the achievements players from Lodestone have gotten yourself...this doesn't even account for players who do this content on other toons on the same account.
https://www.lalachievements.com/rari...vement/global/
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/

Do consider that the achievements only track people who have FINISHED the tier, and don't consider people who do a couple bosses and stop, or can't finish for one reason or another.