People Enjoy hard Games

[RitsukoSonoda]

Again I want to point out that having a lot of players on a job does not mean the job is good. People will flock to the easiest job specifically because it's easy. Lowest common denominator and all that.

There's also a newness factor as well when not looking at high end content. People will often want to play the new shiny thing whether that be an actual new job or one that's been essentially rebuilt to the point it feels like a whole new job.

[Amnmaat]

Again I want to point out that having a lot of players on a job does not mean the job is good. People will flock to the easiest job specifically because it's easy. Lowest common denominator and all that.

Don't leave out visual or thematic appeal. Summoner for example has huge appeal; even if it's too simple now a lot of people were waiting for the day they could summon the primals like in past FFs, and they feel at home now. It's just unfortunate how little player expression there is, there's almost none left; the job basically plays itself on auto, there's no way anyone could mess up the rotation outside of energy drain.

[Aravell]

Isn't this true of all content, though?

Not everyone who does Ultimates, Savages, Extremes, Criterion, etc enjoys it. Not everyone that plays X Job (fill in X with literally any Job in the game) enjoys it.

Unless you have a scientific, official poll of people to determine how many people play a Job and enjoy it vs those that play the Job and don't enjoy it, this is a meaningless argument since it applies to literally everything. "People like BLM because it's a challenge! This proves people want Jobs to be more challenging!" "Well, not everyone that plays BLM enjoys it, just like how not everyone who did Eureka enjoyed it."

Would you accept that as a valid counter argument?

You could try to move the goalpost "SURELY no one plays BLM unless they enjoy it! It's not like it does more damage, can be a ranged Melee, or has any advantage or benefit where anyone would pick it over an easier Job!" isn't really a valid argument, either because (as I sarcastically stated in that imaginary quote) there are advantages BLM holds over SMN and RDM that might make people feel pressured to play it even if they don't really personally enjoy it or what it requires of them.

You just....proved my point? People have a wide variety of reasons to play a job, player population does not equal player satisfaction, to get an actual number on player satisfaction you'd have to have an official poll, a fact that you also mentioned, so how can you say "The people have spoken" when the people were never given a voice?

If you really think player population equals player satisfaction, then SB WHM was the most played healer at the time, so bring back SB lilies, the people have spoken.

[JamieRose]

Less than 1% of the playerbase does Ultimates.

Just gonna leave that here.

[Supersnow845]

Less than 1% of the playerbase does Ultimates.

Just gonna leave that here.

Tell us something we Don’t know next time pls

[TheRealMadruck]

I find it interesting that everyone criticizes forum posters asking for harder content and they dismiss us for being the vocal minority on these forums but to be honest we may be somewhat of the silent majority with a few outspoken people.

The game has repeatedly doubled down on making itself easier because it has been under the false impression that people calling for an easier game were in fact the majority.

If anything, market trends have telling data that a games difficulty is actually something gamers enjoy. If we take a look at Baldurs Gate and Elden ring both of them became main stream hits despite being more difficult titles to beat, and they both outperformed FFXVI which is a story game with incredibly easy gameplay.

We could argue that using the PS5 platform only hurt them however, it doesn't change the fact that making an engaging and difficult game DOES NOT mean you are reducing your playerbase and hurting the games bottom line.

In short, XIV is too easy, and recent commercial successes reveal there is no reason to dumb the game down to where it is today.

"The game has repeatedly doubled down on making itself easier because it has been under the false impression that people calling for an easier game were in fact the majority."

I swear...how are these type of players so delusional to think they are "the silent majority" when every factor of evidence proves otherwise. It take literally a basic google search to get the facts!



From the 187k players whos info was submitted, Savage raiders only make up only 25% of the playerbase. You are not the majority!
Look up the achievements players from Lodestone have gotten yourself...this doesn't even account for players who do this content on other toons on the same account.
https://www.lalachievements.com/rari...vement/global/
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/

[VelKallor]

I will be honest here. Started as a SMN main in 2019 and I will admit, I miss SMN pre Shadowbringers. My hands may sue me for this, but I loved it. I miss my tanky pet, whilst SMN runs okay now, I agree that some of the "identity" has been lost.

I think everyone is in agreement that the msq and normal mode content should be accessible, but there needs to be better slope into endgame content.

Ivtrix: Nailed it. Thank you for saying clearly what I fumbled, your point about MSQ difficulty was what i was trying to say, you said it better.

I am 1000% in agreeance with better midcore content, Criterion didnt seem to hit the mark. Going back to the Dawntrail trailer and the panels, it WAS said that they had some kind of new content a la Bozja planned, as to what that is no one knows yet. Hopefully the next FanFest will have more details.

Wasnt a fan of Bozja myself, but I can see why people wanted it.

Im not too keen with FFXIV's strict and formulaic raid design where almost everything is a straight dance. It got boring for me after a while.

Atelier: There is one HUGE difference between WOW raiding and FF 14..the time factor.

WOWs raiding wastes a HUGE amount of time, getting people together is like herding cats ( hey wait, we actually did that in Legion heheheh...), in that regard I dont think we need copy their model, but in terms of variance and terrain you may very well have a point.

Did you have any ideas on this?

I'm not so sure if this is a hot take. Burnout is real, and it's becoming increasingly common these days. Most of the raiders I know have decided to become casual players and use the game to unwind after work. They turn a Soulslike or whip out ye olde Battle Toads if they want to overcome a challenge.

Absimilard: Ive actually said this myself here..and was sneered at for saying so. I raided up to Mythic back in WOW, and whilst I wont call it burnout, it has gotten to the point I just feel I have done my bit and dont want to climb back onto that hamster wheel anymore. The time factor, the stress, its a never ending gear cycle that some enjoy, sure, but to me its more like we chase BiS in this expac and then the next and then the next...........these days the MSQ and normal content for me is fine.

What gets lost in this mix is a point i raised a while back: The playerbase as a whole is ageing, time is at a premium when you get into the 30's and real life says "Me first buddy, games later". When youve just worked an 8 or 10 hr shift and your body is screaming for food, rest, you think "I could log in for the raid tonight" then your stomach growls or your eyes start to droop and its "God no,. Im too tired and my kids need me more.."

A growing percentage are WELL over 50, their priorities are very different to a 20 year old.

Nothing wrong with others wanting to do harder, sure, there SHOULD be midcore and harder. ( Better rewards are DEFINITELY an issue here )

Hopefully we get more details soon.

[LittleImp]

Less than 1% of the playerbase does Ultimates.

Just gonna leave that here.

Even back in 2021, two entire years ago, TEA/UWU clear rates were both ~5% in JP. Ultimate's have since seen a massive surge in popularity since then, so it can pretty easily be assumed rates are even higher now. We can also assume that the number of people interacting or 'doing' the content without actually clearing it is substantial as well.

[RitsukoSonoda]

"The game has repeatedly doubled down on making itself easier because it has been under the false impression that people calling for an easier game were in fact the majority."

I swear...how are these type of players so delusional to think they are "the silent majority" when every factor of evidence proves otherwise. It take literally a basic google search to get the facts!



From the 187k players whos info was submitted, Savage raiders only make up only 25% of the playerbase. You are not the majority!
Look up the achievements players from Lodestone have gotten yourself...this doesn't even account for players who do this content on other toons on the same account.
https://www.lalachievements.com/rari...vement/global/
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/

No. You've just displayed another example of the flawed mindset causing the issue where you think the only people that don't want an easier game are the ones doing ex/savage/ultimate. The actual silent majority is the bulk of the playerbase not doing that specific content for various reasons that the noisy problem minority has been claiming to represent calling themselves the "casual gamers" when they are no such thing.

[TheRealMadruck]

No. You've just displayed another example of the flawed mindset causing the issue where you think the only people that don't want an easier game are the ones doing ex/savage/ultimate. The actual silent majority is the bulk of the playerbase not doing that specific content for various reasons that the noisy problem minority has been claiming to represent calling themselves the "casual gamers" when they are no such thing.

"The actual silent majority is the bulk of the playerbase not doing that specific content for various reasons"

So let me understand this...you are claiming that "the silent majority" who are supposed to want harder content...are not currently doing some of the hardest content in the game?!?! :0
Either you are a troll or you are a really bad at lying. Its maybe both!