Old content is too easy and needs some tweaks

[vetch]

But not by much. This is only really relevant in ARR content, or ShB/EW jobs in HW content.

Not remotely true. Potencies on core combos have crept upwards for years. My MINE groups now are regularly skipping mechanics (or having to hold DPS) in places we wouldn't have even two years ago.

Mostly irrelevant unless you're talking about Summoner.

lmao what kind of dismissal is this? "It's mostly irrelevant unless you're talking about the job where it's relevant." Summoner does 200 DPS more than the next-best job at level 70.

P.S.: trait Enochian and Blood of the Dragon and Monk's removed positionals with redistributed potency would like a word as well.

The few situations in which the squish has caused jank, it was BOSS damage being overtuned, not player damage.

I'll tell my A8S group this. I'm sure they'll feel better about having had to stop DPS for 10 to 15 seconds in multiple places so we didn't phase at weird times.

Show me one person that actually dislikes the change.

Me. I like it when my RPGs have RPG elements. It really livens up what is otherwise slapping a mannequin for 10 minutes.

As for busters, tell me why the HEY YOU'RE GOING TO DIE IF YOU DON'T MITIGATE THIS, TANK attack shouldn't be telegraphed beyond just its name?

It's boring.

If a game dev puts every mechanic on a schedule, then the gameplay for the player becomes figuring out the schedule, remembering it, and executing the response. Big flashing 'SCHEDULED EVENT HAPPENING NOW' markers remove 33% of that gameplay. T9's untelegraphed multi-hit tankbusters, for example, are much more exciting AND you can still mitigate or invuln them partway through like you can with a single big telegraphed hit, but you only get to keep the most health if you remember when they happen. Imagine that -- being rewarded for learning the game beyond just memorizing the solutions to a few puzzle mechanics per tier.

[Hallideus]

Absolutely, on one hand it's a natural consequence of our stats as we level, our skills, and the gear but on the other it does really invalidate a lot of what was once pretty fun, engaging and challenging content.
I loved Crystal Tower back in ARR and seeing groups in Labyrinth of the Ancients body Behemoth before he gets off his second meteor like its routine is a farcry from the absolute ballache it was for groups to knuckle down and concentrate, get it right. I feel if older content was sufficiently challenging or at least as faithful as possible to their originally intended iterations it would help build the skills of sprouts at the game! I know many, and some friends even who would scoff at the idea of having to do this content properly but imho, I feel it'd really help add some more flavour back into the game that's been lost to the usual process of "new becomes old, old becomes braindead".

[ChazNatlo]

Didn't realise this was a new thread. I was reviewing my old posts to see how I felt about them now and saw an old post in an old thread with basically the same name. My post then was pointing out that at the time stats had progressed do far that even with the level sync on, you didn't have to engage with Praetorium's mechanics.

Specifically "I told someone that back in the day we needed to stay out of the lightning around Nero and Gaius' fire puddles and got called a liar."

Cutting out half the map was probably not great (though standard play was just to ignore that half anyways and just run from teleporter to teleporter anyways) but the revamped fight do help make it feel like a dungeon and not an eight person foot race.

Some of the dungeon fixes have been for the worse, but that doesn't mean that nothing should be done, only that it should be done better.

[technole]

MMO things, everything has a shelf life, and new shiny xpac makes money. Even ultimates get easier despite ilevel lock and sync because of new jobs, changing skills, and potencies.

Retrofitting old ARR dungeons was minimal because they had to do the work for the trusts to function.

Redesigning for say 7.0 potencies means they would have two-year shelf life, and since they committed 10 years more of this game, it's not going to be worth it. Rather have new skills and potencies for new exploratory content like anew Eureka and Bozja.

[Rithy255]

Honestly OLD content really really sucks.
Who goes "oh boy I've been synched down to a ARR dungeon!!!" no one. It's not because its just easy its because you're likely missing 60% of your Job as well, like its a really bad mix of both.

I guess legacy/old content will always be unfun though, a lot of it could be fixed but that would require actual effort.

[Post]

I legit have more fun running the Sunken Temple of Qarn than Aetherfont, because even with it being much easier now than in 2.x optimizing boss fights and trash is much more involved there. Something to do a little better on repeats of content, which is bound to happen because the game makes you repeat content if you ever touch a roulette ever.

As far as shelf life goes, they have more tools than they're using to combat older fights from being trivialized through potency increases. All they need is a trait for every expansion range that buffs your actions for that range, e.g ARR PLD's 123 was 150,200,260 and they could give it a trait for ShB at 71 that brings it to 200,300,400. Job still too strong cuz it has Ration/Astral Impulse/Drill, or too weak because it doesn't have Wanderer's Minuet? No worries. The trait can affect everything, so they start lower than their level cap potency, or buff actions that exist earlier.

EW actually already does this, most jobs get a buff at 84/85. Because of this, ShB stuff hasn't been as affected when playing MiNE as prior expansions, even with the stat squish.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I legit have more fun running the Sunken Temple of Qarn than Aetherfont, because even with it being much easier now than in 2.x optimizing boss fights and trash is much more involved there. Something to do a little better on repeats of content, which is bound to happen because the game makes you repeat content if you ever touch a roulette ever.

As far as shelf life goes, they have more tools than they're using to combat older fights from being trivialized through potency increases. All they need is a trait for every expansion range that buffs your actions for that range, e.g ARR PLD's 123 was 150,200,260 and they could give it a trait for ShB at 71 that brings it to 200,300,400. Job still too strong cuz it has Ration/Astral Impulse/Drill, or too weak because it doesn't have Wanderer's Minuet? No worries. The trait can affect everything, so they start lower than their level cap potency, or buff actions that exist earlier.

EW actually already does this, most jobs get a buff at 84/85. Because of this, ShB stuff hasn't been as affected when playing MiNE as prior expansions, even with the stat squish.

Im sorry but Sunken Temple of Qarn is not something that should be praised. While I dont mind the puzzle elements; having to position a mob to stand of a panel is super jank in this engine as well as having to wait if you accidently kill it. People also brush through the puzzles anyway and Im saying this as someone who has an alt that is only stuck with ARR dungeons due to taking advantage of server exp buff, Temple of Qarn is so painfully slow, Im sorry but I rather have Aetherfont or any of the other 90 dungeons just so that I can have my fun with my rotations at least

[Xuto-cxb]

This issue is the hill I will die on. Casual content really needs to be synced to min ilvl or very close to it. Even 20-30 above starts to trivialize it. I do new dungeons MINE when they come out, and it feels very much like the intended experience. It's not EX, it's not savage, it's really not that hard. It just asks people to pay attention and justifies using your whole kit. Boss length is satisfying, healers have something to do, etc.

The counter I hear to this often is that roulettes are meant to be done quickly to farm. And I think that's the problem is that that is the mentality that's been cultivated. Content is braindead and meaningless, it's just mobile game quality garbage to farm some tomes or whatever. Endsinger is a good example of how bad the problem really is, but it's bad everywhere. And considering roulettes are usually people's first experience with something, they need to be restricted.

[TheNight]

But not by much.

You sound like you haven't cleared anything while relevant.

If you think A8S today and A8S in HW are remotely similar, I shudder to think whether you are capable of handling any single job back in HW.

[technole]

You sound like you haven't cleared anything while relevant.

If you think A8S today and A8S in HW are remotely similar, I shudder to think whether you are capable of handling any single job back in HW.

Yep. A8S was practically ultimate before ultimate existed. World first was a month to clear.

Even though it's easier for blue mage cause of diamondback, there is a reason not a ton of people have the Morbol either.

A12S and then O4S 2nd halves has been the benchmark of savage difficulty ever since because they were happy with clear rates.