Old content is too easy and needs some tweaks

[Yumi-Yumi]

So recently I've been discussing a lot with my friends about the game, and one argument that came up and we all agreed about was the state of old instanced content.

The game has a lot of dungeons and trials from the previous expansions that are very fun to experience, the problem is that it didn't age well due to the constant changes to jobs and stats with each expansion and it being synced with the highest possible item level of the expansion it came out in. This results in said content being very boring and extremely easy to clear but not in a fun way.
Entire phases and mechanics (that can be failed with basically no downside) are skipped and a lot of the fun running those instances is lost because of this, both for new players playing through the game and "veteran" players running roulettes or helping friends.

I get not making the game too hard for new players or tedious for players running roulettes, but I think this is a bit too extreme in many instances. For example in "The Vault" the bosses die so fast that they can barely show their mechanics or say their voicelines, even worse is Thordan which is absolutely pathetic right now and an absolutely underwhelming experience for a final boss of an expansion. A8 doesn't even get to the best part of the music anymore.

I really think that old content should get some kind of adjustment to its stats to make it more in line with current endgame content so that it is more engaging for everyone, while also maintaining its uniqueness and fun factor of when it came out.

Now I'm not saying that old content should go back to be a major cause of wiping where getting a group with a bunch of new players results in wipes and people leaving the instance, but at least find a balance where said content can be experienced to its fullness without feeling like something you can do while half asleep.
Obviously rewards could be adjusted as needed to compensate for the extra time it would take to run content.

What does everyone think? Do you agree or think it is fine as it is right now?

Thanks for reading, first time I'm posting on the forum but I wanted to share my thoughts on this matter

[kpxmanifesto]

Oh yeah, I completely agree. I brought this up a while ago too. Take the King Thordan fight for instance, like you mentioned. I can probably get hit by a majority of the mechanics and be just fine.


Welcome to the FFXIV Official Forums, by the way.

[Stormpeaks]

Oh yeah, I completely agree. I brought this up a while ago too. Take the King Thordan fight for instance, like you mentioned. I can probably get hit by a majority of the mechanics and be just fine.


Welcome to the FFXIV Official Forums, by the way.

That's literally the same thing in lvl 90 content though, a lot of the mechanics can easily be survived, low content is as "easy" as end game content, minus savage and ultimate, and even then savage really isnt the hardest thing to do

[kpxmanifesto]

That's literally the same thing in lvl 90 content though, a lot of the mechanics can easily be survived, low content is as "easy" as end game content, minus savage and ultimate, and even then savage really isnt the hardest thing to do

Eh, I got killed by the wave of water while fighting Althyk and Nymeia for the first time. There's a few things in Euphrosyne that will kill the player if you get hit more than twice. Thordan tho? Nah.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Thordan isn't a great example, because even in HW as fresh 60s, he was still badly undertuned.

But yeah, item level bloat and power creep has made a lot of old content lose its teeth. Old end bosses like Nidhogg, Shinryu, and Hades don't feel all that threatening anymore. Hell, even Endsinger is already losing chunks of the final phase because she just dies first. Tighter item syncs would help, but it's a band-aid solution.

[AwesomeJr44]

Some of the older dungeon and raid (primarily Alexander ones) bosses just need more HP and they should be relatively fine, but some of the trials and alliance raids need their min ilv caps reduced.

Any trial that is an expansion capstone fight (Thordan, Shinryu, Hades, Endsinger) gets heavily screwed over by increasing ilvs throughout the expansion, so all of those are going to need a ilv cap to prevent this from happening. A mega easy fight is not really a good way to end an expansion's story, especially when said boss is typically hyped up to be super strong and powerful. I've gotten Thordan a few times in trial roulette lately and I've had runs where we got him to 0.1% before he leaves.

As for alliance raids, Crystal Tower is just too easy and braindead due to item level. You can actually see this at play by looking at the World of Darkness raid. That raid's min ilv is much closer to the ilv cap for ARR, and it shows as the mechanics actually matter to an extent and are dangerous enough to kill you. I personally think that the World of Darkness would be a good standard difficulty for ARR alliance raids. Thus, I think a max ilv cap should be introduced to LotA and Syrcus Tower to try and emulate that same difficulty level. This would also technically re-introduce mechanics to those two raids, making those raids more interesting.

[Mainasu]

I think it'd be really appreciated if they were to do a pass for some of these trials and raids like that, for sure. There's no reason why they can't put an ilvl cap on some of the more important ones.. Endsinger for example. It's silly to think the 83 and 89/90 MSQ trials are harder than that, and it's a pretty easy fix.

[Jeeqbit]

A8 doesn't even get to the best part of the music anymore.

A8 used to not get to the best part of the music before the stat squish, but the stat squish actually made it better and I see it fairly often now unless the group is good enough. But it still could be made harder to skip.

I really think that old content should get some kind of adjustment to its stats to make it more in line with current endgame content so that it is more engaging for everyone, while also maintaining its uniqueness and fun factor of when it came out.

I think previous expansion content should be synced to minimum item level, but that could make a few duties too hard for new players and I doubt the developers would go for it anyway.

As a compromise, I think it could be tier-synced to the crafted gear or non-augmented tomestone item level for the tier it released, or close to that, so it recreates how some people used to be in raid gear and some people used to be in dungeon gear, creating a party medium that was somewhere between the min and max item level.

What does everyone think? Do you agree or think it is fine as it is right now?

Yes, I have always felt your pain, especially in A8. It's painful watching sprouts do it and thinking it's an extremely boring duty when, properly synced, it's a really fun dance that aligns perfectly with the music.

[Yumi-Yumi]

That's literally the same thing in lvl 90 content though, a lot of the mechanics can easily be survived, low content is as "easy" as end game content, minus savage and ultimate, and even then savage really isnt the hardest thing to do

It's true that level 90 normal mode content is easy and is very forgiving but you get to see pretty much all the mechanics. It doesn't feel like you're not experiencing the content as it was intended. I'm not against having duties be new player and casual friendly. I just want old stuff to feel like it's at least balanced around the current damage and healing output. Currently it almost feels like I'm cheating when doing old instanced content.

[Yumi-Yumi]

I think it'd be really appreciated if they were to do a pass for some of these trials and raids like that, for sure. There's no reason why they can't put an ilvl cap on some of the more important ones.. Endsinger for example. It's silly to think the 83 and 89/90 MSQ trials are harder than that, and it's a pretty easy fix.

I think previous expansion content should be synced to minimum item level, but that could make a few duties too hard for new players and I doubt the developers would go for it anyway.

As a compromise, I think it could be tier-synced to the crafted gear or non-augmented tomestone item level for the tier it released, or close to that, so it recreates how some people used to be in raid gear and some people used to be in dungeon gear, creating a party medium that was somewhere between the min and max item level.

Yes, I think syncing to an Item Level that was obtainable during the patch the content came out could be a good solution. I don't know if that would be enough and if some duties might need some manual adjustments but I really hope that in the future the devs will address this issue.