For those who main/semi-main a DPS (e.g. DNC, RDM) but like Healers...

[ForsakenRoe]

just skip if your name is not RenThras, probably

Also, I don't dislike your Medica 2/Cure 3 idea. 30 sec CD 15 sec duration would put it about on par with Soil and Kerochole (without the mitigation).

Good to hear, unfortunately for you, 45s is probably still too low for the idea. I'd expect it (Med2) at 60s if anything, see, if we make it 30, you pretty much remove any reason to use Rapture. Now, this results in the whole Lily system inverting, and healing becomes 'Med2>Cure3 combo for AOE, Solace with lilies on tanks', which A: means the tanks are even more unkillable (since this healing would be on top of their selfsustain), and B: it completely kills the point of using Regen. Med1 (and Cure3 with no bloodlily build) would be there in those cases where you'd need to AOE heal even if it costs you damage. But again, I was spitballing, I'm not enamored with this idea anyway

I did finally get around to this. Here are the healer posts I found

Yes, same, for some of them. And I put them in my post. Not all, but some of them you have there stand out as 'I remember putting that in there', like the one that got Lovely Branch/Adorable Sapling mixed up when asking for Feo Ul SCH glam, or the RERAISE! fella, I remember that one very well

Shoutout to the PLD's asking for Raise though. They'll be locked slot for prog, and as soon as prog's over they gotta throw away the shield and get the gunblade, cos that Raise is gonna put them 8% behind the others cos 'utility tax' or whatever

But yes, it is a spitball example. I've also proposed other changes to WHM:

...Glare, Glare, Glare, Holy (or Banish)...
...Casting 3x Holys = one free Misery cast...
...Make Assize a GCD with a 30 sec CD...

...Rotation of A, 3G, 1H, 3G, 1H, 3G, A, H, 3G, H, 3G, H, 2G, A if no damage is being taken by the party. Of course, it wouldn't be exactly this, since you're also using 3 Lilies in there somewhere, and then a Misery after the 1/2/etc min Assizes

Now THIS is a rotation with some real chest hair, and it's now ended up having more buttons to think about than even mine! Oh no wait, I think it's equal, assuming you've left Dia off cos it's pruned in your rework. So it's similar to my thinking, but different in some regards. It's a lot more rigid and cyclical, whereas mine having the staggered timers of 12 and 15s would mean you can't build a 'block' of rotation in a sense, as yours can with '3G, 1H'. Still, if this was put in the game, I'd be more than satisfied I think (especially in AOE, you might want to tie getting the free Misery to the 'empowered holy/banish' buff, rather than the pseudo combo of 3H>1M, that's an alarming amount of AOE potential)

I'm a WHM vet, and I'm not being alienated by leaving WHM alone. I'd be alienated by changing WHM

You would have got alienated when they changed WHM from SB to SHB, you just didn't notice because the changes happened to the part of the class you didn't like. Kinda like if BRD lost it's songs and just became 'guy with bow', BRDs would hate it, but the people who want Ranger as a job would not be 'alienated' because the change aligns with what they want from the game

LESS ideally, my Glare->empowered Holy/Holy->Dark Arts Misery/Assize GCD with a 30 sec CD are all me being malleable and offering changes. WHILE, again, giving up completely ALL THREE other healers as blood sacrifice/tribute to your god of complexity.

...which, once again, is me being far more malleable and flexible than literally any of you have been towards my position.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time we've seen all of these pitch points (and the rotation they'd lead to) in one place, no? I remember seeing your 3 Glares > 1 Superholy before a couple of times, but not the '3 Superholy > 1 Free Misery' I don't think

And please don't be lumping us all together re: flexibility, I went back to my design and added stuff because of feedback from you specifically. Stuff like changing Protect from 'lowbob Aquaveil' to 'lowbob PI', and adding Nature Gauge build values to the non-lily GCD heals (something about 'healing resource built only via damage is not good for casuals' iirc). I can be flexible when I think the argument I'm being presented is convincing (Protect PI is a convincing argument), but if I think something's not good I'm not gonna be swayed

Personally, I'd like a healer to not have a DoT.

Honestly, same. 'DOT management' is probably one of the weakest aspects of my gameplay. Part of me probably would prefer it if WHM was full of Hard-CD GCDs ala Phlegma, such that EG: my reworked Dia is not a 12s DOT, but a 12s CD burst hit. In fact, it's 'inspiration'/older brother, Holy Priest, does exactly this, with Holy Words lowering CDs on things so there's interplay. Akin to 'Casting Stone or Holy advances the CD on Assize by 1 second' in our terms. And that could be a cool design, but it's a bit of a radical overhaul to add that kind of thing, so it'd have to be a 'AST/DRG rework' kind of announcement. But as for DOTs, I also acknowledge that A: WHM's always had a DOT and removing it is kinda not great, B: Banish (or in your case, Assize-GCD) already fills that role (and having two would lead at least one person to say 'why not combine them' in a reddit post), and C: I can appreciate the idea of 'multidotting' being a way to express skill in certain situations, and I wouldn't want to remove that (Eg doublechecking my design brief potencies, it's better to multidot 2 targets, Holy becomes better than Glare at 3 but multidotting all 3 is still better (430 from DOT vs total of 420 from Holy), and then straight Holy becomes better at 4+. Banish remains part of the AOE at any target count)

Which leads us to... SGE, if you can believe that. A new healer, focused on 'do damage > cause healing', it'd have been the perfect time to add a healer that does not have a DOT. Instead, they could have had Eukrasian Dosis/E.Phlegma have unique effects that play into the damage-healer archetype more, Toxicon could actually do something other than be 'Ruin 2 with terms and conditions attached', etc. If it weren't a bloody shield healer (or the split didn't exist), the first thing that comes to mind (and I'm about to go to bed so it's not exactly functional atm) is that E.Dosis could apply a small regen to the Kardion target (same damage potency as regular Dosis, higher MP cost so you can't just spam it), and E.Phlegma could be... idk, some AOE shielding emanating from the Kardion target (Prognosis still exists for those times where Phlegma did not line up with the raidwide).

DOTs can be cool design. But I don't think they're cool design when A: everyone has one, and B: everyone has one. SGE didn't really need one, if anything it feels like it was just thrown on there to try and justify Eukrasia being a button a bit more. I'd also consider removing Combust IF! and only if, said removal is what has to be done in order to focus the class more on it's buffing aspects. Like, if we're playing 'would you press the button' and it's 'unique card effects like SB, ...BUT... Combust is die', personally I'm slamming that button frame 1, and I'm not stopping to think. They removed all the Time Magic stuff so the chances of 'AST manipulates it's DOT with its abilities' is pretty dead, and that was the saving grace for Combust's continued existence IMO. Axe it and replace it with something more interesting, something to do with the cards like a Minor Arcana rework (cough). SCH can have 3 DOTS again cos that's it's schtick, and WHM can have just one short one, so it feels bursty and strong


By the way, I do hope you two stop going in circles soon, I would quite like it if we could see less of the word 'inflexibility' and more of things like potency balancing or cooldown tweaking, since the former has zero chance of consensus and the latter has... well, not much chance, but it's at least higher than zero% right

thank in advance