For those who main/semi-main a DPS (e.g. DNC, RDM) but like Healers...

[Shurrikhan]

There's zero logic to do this [Ty's spitball compromise of revamping Classes to be non-optimal but generally viable easier options] as opposed to just adding a new Job.

I don't think there's much point in revamping Classes just to produce an Easy Mode option, but I sure as hell don't want to give rip the Elemental aspects out of WHM just to then hand them over to some new job.

That'd make no more sense than to make a new Card Dealer, Time Mage, and/or Planar Mage and then ask why AST feels cheated when all its motifs have been given over to those.

That said, I do think there are definite lucrative results possible from revamping Classes in terms of world-building and giving players a sense of customization that is sorely lacking from this game -- which is increasingly less a about creating a role for oneself as just being playing the one given to you, with only N jobs' (often barely-differed) shades on that experience.


I'd want ambitious Class revamps that try to do all that could provide, but I don't much care for building in a simplified/easy mode just so that some players can better pretend they're not holding others back by maxing out a lower ceiling instead of producing the same throughput via a middling performance with a higher ceiling job.

(And if the same amount of effort, +/- how much better or worse this or that job clicks for this player, does not result in roughly the same performance, then you have an imbalance that hurts freedom of choice, thereby having effectively done the opposite of what the additional options were intended to do.)

[ForsakenRoe]

Here's another more mid to high tier log.... 78% run, 95% on Dia, 5 Miserys.

Next in line, 57% run, 84% uptime on Dia, 2 Miserys, 5:54 kill time.

The new log that isn't a 90+ log..., 67% run, 85% uptime on Dia, 3 Miserys, 6:24 kill time.

Pressing Glare when Dia isn't up is not optimal. By your own definition, it's a mistake.

I went and looked cos curious, and found a 32% WHM with 85% Dia uptime on Nophica. More likely that people drop Glare casts to move to dodge mechanics, I'm guessing. So I threw it in that analysis site and:

-70% GCD uptime
-Overheal warnings out the wazoo
-DOT uptime warning (think this happens if you have sub-95%)

'Suggestions':
-Don't die (1 death)
-Overheal less (61% overheal)
-Try to minimize losing casts (21 casts lost due to moving)
-Use Aquaveil (4 out of 4 uses missed)
-Use lilies to prep Misery/don't overcap (1 lily overcapped (this is not that big a deal imo))
-Don't beef your weaves (2 incorrect weaves)

But yes, clearly it's the DOT uptime that was the issue. Now, it could be argued that making the DOT a bigger factor in damage dealt could cause it to be another thing on the suggestions list, but I'd argue that if they're missing 19 casts due to moving, then moving some of the potency from the nuke to the DOT actually helps this player.

It is a mistake. You hit another filler when you had the opportunity to start tapping into the bonus value of your soft-CD instead.

Ah, but consider the following: the fight will end in 10 seconds, you are 2/3 the way to a Misery, and your DOT has 2 seconds left on it. In this exceptionally specific situation, it's 'optimal' to Rapture, Misery, and then close out with Glares, because Dia would not have enough time to pay for itself versus a Glare, let alone exceed Glare's contribution. Semantics maybe, but it means there is a situation where 'refresh DOT' is not actually the best choice, and I think that's a good thing. It'd be even more boring if the 'correct choice' every time was to refresh Dia as soon as it falls off, even if the fight's 3 seconds from ending

In a more general response to all, I think wrapping more potency into DOTs or hard-CD skills (like a Goring Blade kind of thing) and moving some potency out of the Nuke to compensate, is a perfectly functional solution to make things more casual friendly, as 'losing a Glare due to movement' would then have less per-GCD punishment. However, I don't think it's a good solution in the current game state, because we only have one DOT. Which means that, every tick that the DOT is not up has a comparatively bigger punishment, compared to previously where we had 2 or 3 DOTs with lower potency per tick. Dropping both of SCH's DOTs back in SB would be roughly the same damage lost per tick as currently, but unlike today's SCH, you could drop a tick of only one of the two (eg, you refresh Bio cos moving, but can't get Miasma at the same time), which means you're punished less compared to now, losing only eg 35 potency, versus the current 'all or nothing' of 70. Which is why I would like SCH to have several DOTs again, I'm not good at DOT management (I blame the fact we don't have to really manage anything anymore, so I'm out of practice), but by having 3 different DOTs instead of 1, the overall 'punishment for missing a tick' can be reduced. Alternatively, I guess WHM's got part of an idea going on, with the 'damage on cast', if you were to change Biolysis from 700p total to '250, plus 55p per tick for 550, full total of 700', it's the same overall damage, but you lose less damage by early refreshing it. Though, at those numbers, that'd kill Ruin 2 , but it's an example

The conflation occurring here, and leading to the faulty conclusion, is that 'casuals are automatically bad at DOT management, thus the solution of 'put more on DOT and less on nuke' is not casual friendly'. Which is not really the case. Plenty of casuals are pretty good at DOT management. I'm not casual, and I'm really bad at it. Different people find certain job mechanics to be easier or harder. I imagine there's some people that are giga-gods at DOTs (ie they play AffLock in WOW), but are not good at static 60s loop style rotations like SAM's, preferring more reactive stuff like BRD. And they could be hardcore or casual, that identifier has nothing to do with how good they are at DOT management

[Shurrikhan]

Ah, but consider the following: the fight will end in 10 seconds, you are 2/3 the way to a Misery, and your DOT has 2 seconds left on it. In this exceptionally specific situation, it's 'optimal' to Rapture, Misery, and then close out with Glares, because Dia would not have enough time to pay for itself versus a Glare, let alone exceed Glare's contribution. Semantics maybe, but it means there is a situation where 'refresh DOT' is not actually the best choice, and I think that's a good thing.

Oh, absolutely.

I've always thought of complexity increasing in the order of:

1. Filler (direct/instant) ->
2. Rigid CD (direct/instant) ->
3. Soft CD (direct/instant) ->
4. Soft CD on enemy (direct/instant) ->
5. DoT.

The second rung adds tracking.
The third adds a small degree of nuance in that you can pop it slightly early, which may be preferable at times.
The fourth means that you can now cleave (getting bonus damage from dealing with multiple enemies... up to the point that's eclipsed by AoEs anyways).
The fifth adds TTK consideration.

Note, of course, that all DoTs are inherently soft-CDs with multi-target implication (up until the point they're eclipsed by AoE spam).

That's why people tend to be fond of them, imo; they carry a lot of little implications for such a seemingly simple concept, and frequently feature utility on their soft-CDs, allowing them high functionality for their button cost. Dia is a damage bonus over Glare at 12+ seconds (+/- 2.99s for server tick sync), but it's also a mobility tool.

[ty_taurus]

I don't think there's much point in revamping Classes just to produce an Easy Mode option

I'm not even saying that's the right call, or a call I want to make. It was just one of a few examples of "bargaining chips" I brought up as things that you could do for a relatively small amount of effort to compromise on this idea that there needs to be a job someone can pick up and play perfectly without trying. Like a TAS job that corrects your gameplay for you or is designed in a way that pressing one button gives you perfect performance, or something as close to that as possible. And moving away from that is out of the question. Because it doesn't actually matter whether or not content is clearable if someone who is inexperienced can't pump out world first raider parses by mashing 1 button for over half the fight.

[ASkellington]

In the case of SMN, the Job was changed, leaving people who played it and liked it homeless. Here, WHM would be remaining the same. If anything, your argument would be one against changing ANY of the Healers, not an argument against leaving one the same. You say "deserve to be given something" because you and I disagree on what that is. To me, the changes you guys want are a punishment, not a reward. A penalty, not a gift. To my way of thinking, WHM in this idea is the only one not being hurt.

You don't even know I want. Because you don't read nor do you care to read. You keep asserting ideas you think I want, without even asking and getting a clearer picture of it.

I say I want more damage options for healers - you automatically assume I mean 1-2-3 combo. Which you have done, twice.
You never asked specifically what I mean by more damage options, if I want them to be more flavored to the class, how many or even if I wanted it to be a combo.

I say I want all four healers including WHM to have more complexity - you think I want WHM to be played at the tier of SB SCH and AST.

I don't even think you know what my stance is other than I want to see all 4 healers changed and be more complexed. You don't know how complex I want each healer to be, if its the same across all of them, if some are easier or harder or even what I personally want vs what I think is better for WHM targeted audience which isn't ME.

As for the rest of your comment, SMN and WHM I compared simply because people who like a class design are being alienated. They differ how as you pointed out. We all know about SMN. So why do I say WHM vets are being alienated by "leaving WHM alone"? Because they are. You are unwilling to compromise and give them anything. You're literally telling them "your class can't see improvements for your engagement despite any and all attempts to keep the core idea of WHM (that being a simple/easy to use healer for clarification) while also giving the veterans something.

Your stance has pretty much been "leave one healer alone 0 changes" - that healer pretty much being WHM. That entails:

• You don't want to give them Aero III or an equivilent.
• You don't want to give them a dps kit rotational or not that may perhaps play into the Lily System more, no matter how basic it could be.
• I'm even going to tack on that you don't want to give them more Lilies and/or more things to spend Lilies on.

Why? Because that's what "0 changes" means.

So are you truly about no changes? Or minor changes or about a WHM who still plays on the GCD, who still has an ease of access kit including their dps or what? Because if you want 0 changes to the class at all outside of what SE textbook gives all healers, then yeah, we're going to disagree.

[Shurrikhan]

[@Renathras] So are you truly about no changes? Or minor changes or about a WHM who still plays on the GCD, who still has an ease of access kit including their dps or what? Because if you want 0 changes to the class at all outside of what SE textbook gives all healers, then yeah, we're going to disagree.

Admittedly, I have trouble telling which parts are hypothetical/compromises and which are Ren's actual preferences sometimes, just due to the length and piecework of discourse, but he summarizes here, if you'd like to take a look. It's something I regret not better remembering and being mindful of since, as not to misread hyperbole or things otherwise left ambiguous. (Expand Below.)

In a nutshell, though, my proposed changes would amount to:

1) Encounters that require more consistent healing. Low difficulties would still have this, but the values would be so low that novice players could cover it with GCD heal fallbacks. Harder fights would actually make this threatening where the healing has to be addressed in a consistent manner. No more fights with lots of damage and then 45 seconds of nothing at all happening. This change would reduce the ability to address all healing with oGCDs, while still allowing oGCDs to be somewhat powerful for the Jobs that would continue to rely on them.

2) More somewhat randomized damage, like boss random targeting of players or continued auto-attacks of Tanks while prepping mechanics/casting. This was done in HW and was also generally well received for what that's worth. Again, this wouldn't hurt Jonny Casual as casual content would have the damage low enough they could handle it with their fallbacks if necessary.

3) A general reduction in oGCD power for Healers...but with caveats. Specifically, some Healer Jobs would be designed to work with their oGCDs being a source of their healing, and so they would be tuned to that end.

After those changes were made, since they're kind of essential:

1) WHM would largely play as it does today, with a few minor changes. First, a Protect spell (that Traits up to Pro-Shell and then Plenary with the Pro-Shell effect as a mitigation tool - WHM presently has less frequent mitigation than BLM. Yes, BLM. Addle has a lower CD than Temperance [lower reduction, true, but the point is, BLM can engage with party mitigation more frequently than WHM, and that's just silly]). Second, I'd honestly make it where all GCD heals nourish the Blood Lily. The point of this is to make WHM the GCD Healer...that actually USES its GCD heals. The Lily system has been admirable at trying to give this feel, but it's like saying SMN is just as much a Caster as BLM. While true in terms of the way the servers treat the Jobs, sure, but players routinely call SMN a Ranged that has the Caster icon because of all its instant (GCD, but instant) casts. WHM should be encouraged to engage with its GCD heals, not slapped with a big damage nerf for using them. It would also allow use of interesting abilities. WHM's GCD kit has redundancies, but with some tweaks (and looking back on its spell history...), they're more diverse than "Rapture vs Solace". Cure 3 vs Medica 3 vs Medica (when its MP cost was lower and it was actually what you used after Medica 2 while the HoT was still ticking) was a choice for how to deal with a problem based on the situation at hand. We no longer have that. Rapture is always the correct answer. Regen is a nice and pretty powerful heal...that we only use pre-pull because Solace is the DPS gain and Regen the DPS loss. Same with Cure 2. By making the GCD heals damage neutral, it means min/max damage optimization - which people here insist is the only thing that matters - isn't part of the decision on which heals to use. Instead, which heal is best for the situation is the decision on which heals to use...which it should be. MP management actually mattering would also be a consequence of this, though again, for casual healers in casual content, this wouldn't be something limiting them too harshly. But for skilled healers in high end content, this would be a serious consideration. For example, there could be a world where Medica 1 has lower range than Medica 2 and lower total healing, but has half the MP cost making it far more efficient when low on MP vs Medica 2 or Cure 3. Medica 2 could have some trait that has it work like Criterion regen where the power is boosted if the HoT is on the target, but with it having a higher MP cost than Medica 1. Cure 3 would have its higher MP cost, but apply its healing instantly in a big chunk, useful for stacked mechanics where the party also needs to be topped off quickly. Now each is actually a meaningful choice based on the situation, the party's positioning, the Healer's resources, and the encounter mechanics.

2) SCH I would mostly revert to the SB version. As I discussed in the Then and Now thread, SCH was the most harmed and is, today, the most "filler-spamy" of the Healers; the meme should be "Broil-spam", not "Glare-spam" (funny irony; WHM is about tied with SGE as the LEAST filler-spammy of the Healers). Specifically, with Broil being a 2.5 sec cast, it gave Ruin 2 (and Miasma 2 if you were in close to the boss and had ample MP) reasons to exist. Ruin 2 was both a movement tool and a weave tool that was optimal to use for weaving (even non-ED oGCDs), even though it was a damage loss vs Broil, since Broil oGCD use would be clipping and Ruin 2 allowed for more distance movement. Miasma 2 was actually a DPS gain, but at the cost of more MP, adding MP management into the mix here as well. The changes from SB I would want added would be the improved pet AI, and the capstones added since SB (Seraph/Consolation and Expedience), since those have been useful and interesting additions to the kit. We would also be reverting to (I believe it was ShB when we lost it) the changes where pet abilites were triggered by the player but didn't count against the player's ability use, allowing more effective weaving and allowing players to create macros for them if they wish. Aetherpact can remain as a boosted Embrace, but...I dunno if we want to just dump Faerie Gauge or try to salvage it into something useful. The goal here is to return SCH into its last "good" state, SB, while not taking away the actual improvements that would have made it better, such as better pet AI and utility like Expedience.

3) AST I'm not entirely sure what to do with. I play it enough now that I can speak more authoritatively on it than I used too, but I don't at all main it, and I know people that main it tend to like the opposite of what I like in terms of rotation and encounter approach. Where I enjoy reactive healing, AST is all about pre-planning. And where I like low APM Jobs, AST is all about bursts of high activity. Since its inception, it's had a higher APM. It was long the only Healer whose spam-nuke had a low cast time to facilitate frequent weaving, and every iteration of it has had a lot of them. So where if I was making AST for people like me, I'd make the card effects into GCDs (that boost the next Malific by 100% stacking to 5 or some such to facilitate a Draw/Play series of actions if needed), I also recognize that a lot of AST players would hate that because they like getting carpel-tunnel. So instead, I'd propose returning towards SB, but with a few modifications. The first would be to have two sets of Draw and Play, probably Major and Minor Arcana. One set would be damage increasing abilities, the other utility. The first might be X% flat damage, Y% added crit, or Z% added direct hit, with the ratio being 1:2:3 like BRD songs are. The utility set would be a damage reduction ability, a movement speed increasing ability, and a haste (spell and skill speed) ability. Next, I'd massage RNG a bit by allowing stocking of any card the AST chooses. This would allow, say, the damage reduction ability, if not needed now but needed in the future, to be "stocked" for later use at the time it matters, instead of pre-SB where it was just wasted or Royal Road fodder. I'd...also bring back Royal Road, because while I personally hated half of AST buttons being both oGCDs and card related...some people loved the hell out of that, and liked being able to modify cards to increase effectiveness, duration, or give them an AOE effect. AST's damage kit and healing kit don't directly need to be changed, since they're more or less what they were. Some more recent effects could be added to existing ones - for example, Exaltation or Intersection's damage reduction/shield could be a trait addition to the Bole card (there's no reason Cards can't get improvements with Traits at higher levels, now is there?). Oh, and one more little change that I'm sure (sarcasm) no one would really care about or notice - return Diurnal and Nocturnal stances. No, not hot swapping in battle. Pick one or the other, but the option is now there again. I feel that would be a pretty welcome change.

4) SGE there are two possible ways to go with it. One is to leave it exactly like it is today. The reasoning being it's always been this way, so there aren't any complaints from people about it having some core part of what they liked about its identity or function changed. That is, possibly even moreso than WHM, there's a strong argument to leave SGE as it is, since this is all its ever been, and this is what all players of SGE knew they were getting (more or less) when picking it up any time after the first month or so of EW, if not before. The OTHER argument, however, is that SGE was billed as effectively a DPS that heals by doing damage. In an ideal world, we'd add a new Healer and split the apple that way. But for the sake of argument (since the first of those is already known; we know how SGE operates now, so "leave it as it is" is self-explantory), the second version would be to really double down on the Kardia system. Kardia healing would now be variable based on the attack used to generate it. Most of SGE's oGCD heals would be removed. SGE's purpose is to heal by doing damage, not to heal by casting heals, oGCD or GCD. Correct performance of the rotation would lead to consistent and large Kardia heals, and SGE would have abilities that would amplify Kardia. One would be an oGCD that makes Kardia AOE for a short duration (say 10 sec) on a 1 min CD. This is the "Whispering Dawn/Fey Blessing" type of thing that Physis 2 and Kerochole are used for now. Another would be a short duration (10 sec) second Kardia that can be placed on a second target (e.g. the OT after a shared tank buster). Think Synastry, just in this case, Kardia procs. SGE would retain mitigation effects from Kerochole, Ixochole, and Holos, as well as Holos' shield, but would lose the healing associated with them. Again, its healing should mostly be happening via Kardia. I haven't quite worked out the damage rotation (or specifically, how to do it), but something on the order of RDM's Caster rotation, with the big finisher being Pneuma instead of a Melee combo with spell stingers on the end. Properly executing the damage rotation would build resources that could be used on Pneuma casts, which would lead to big healing. Where WHM is the GCD Healer in this system, SGE is the opposite take, being a GCD damage dealer that provides healing to the party by properly performing a damage rotation (peppered with some mitigation and Kardia modifier use) instead. Where WHM would be focused on GCD heals and do damage as more of an afterthought, SGE would focus on GCD damage spells and its healing would be the almost afterthought instead.

...of course (laughable given the length of this post), this is more an overview. Though at least the first three of these are pretty self-explanatory. The SGE rework is really the only one that would require more in-depth explanation, but the point of it is to make it heal by doing damage and appeal to people that prefer dealing damage and like their heals to be something they throw on the side as a result of performing their damage rotation correctly. A Healer analogue to GNB for Tanks who like a more (Melee) DPS playstyle, this SGE would be the Caster equivalent, playing more like a RIFT Chloromancer + a WoW Disc Priest or something.

Each one would appeal to a different type of player, and each would be balanced around providing a similar amount of healing and damage, but with the method they use being what distinguishes them.

Oh, and one more random addition to all of them: Each one's basic cure spell Traits up to become a spell that has the same MP cost and cast time, but also the Esuna effect of removing one status ailment. For WHM Cure 1 -> Esuna, SCH Physic -> Leeches, AST Benific 1 -> Exalted Detriment. SGE's can just stay Diagnosis but with the added effect. (The name already calls to mind a visit to the doctor, so it kind of just works.) At the same cost, cast time, and healing as the base Cure 1 equivalent spell, in low level content, nothing changes. In high level content, for the healers based around MP management, it would still serve the Cure 1 slot of "if you have nothing else left, you can keep healing with this". And for the rare content with a status ailment you can cleanse, it does the job of Esuna now without costing an obligatory additional hotbar spot that you have to have Esuna slotted in "just in case" as is the situation now.

Overall, minor QoL change, that, but I think a lot of people would like to see it, or at least be neutral towards it.

So, there's an obviously horribly imbalanced suggestion in there in giving every GCD heal a filler attack's worth of damage and 100 MP via Misery's refund (so that Glare is literally pointless, since you can just Cure or Regen for equal damage at lesser cost), but without that you're left with... WHM pretty much exactly as it is now, but with the balance of GCD heals' MP costs relative to each other improved and a GCD defensive buff whose intended tuning (and therefore usage) I'm uncertain of.

Granted, that was a spitball example, and even if it weren't, people can change their mind / improve upon their past ideas.

[ForteNightshade]

I went and looked cos curious, and found a 32% WHM with 85% Dia uptime on Nophica. More likely that people drop Glare casts to move to dodge mechanics, I'm guessing. So I threw it in that analysis site and:

The amount of healers I see completely stop casting for mechanics, especially this tier with how movement specific P10 and P11 can be, is staggering. And this is at the Savage level. Normal mode takes those same mistakes and dials them up tenfold. A lot of people either don't know how to slidecast, don't know it exists to begin with or simply can't be bothered. Hell, just last week I had a WHM accuse me of barsing when only she died to a mechanic. This is after I solo healed Styx 2 with her and a DPS dead. When I looked up the logs later, she let Assize drift like crazy. Guess what would have been available where she died if used correctly.

DoT uptime is certainly a factor for inexperienced or even downright lazy healers but I'd hazard a guess to say it isn't even in the top three of "worst case" issues.

[Renathras]

This part is the part that makes me think it's more a case of 'well if there has to be a pound of flesh offered in sacrifice, let it be this one for X reason',

I mean, it could be, but the rest of his marks don't seem to indicate that. Yeah, he said "stupid ass" rotation, but he also talked about HW SCH "*uckface or die *hit", and kind of mockingly talked about SGE being a convoluted mess to see if the community would embrace it or not - and I don't think he was offering SGE as a "sacrifice" there, that sounded serious as well. If you watch his videos, you'd hear he's pretty much snarky and sarcastic about everything. He was in this video as well, including referring to HW SCH days and to Cleric Stance. His statement about embracing uniqueness (which includes one healer having a simple rotation) seemed genuine.

Also, I don't dislike your Medica 2/Cure 3 idea. 30 sec CD 15 sec duration would put it about on par with Soil and Kerochole (without the mitigation). Not as sure about Regen -> Cure 2, though...I really wish Regen was something we could use more often, and there are times to use it on 2 Tanks. Being able to only use it on one would kind of suck (e.g. double tankbusters that apply bleeds, like P5S). I remember in ARR when Medica 2 had a 30 sec duration (and Regen 18 sec?) that a common thing to do in general casual content was refresh Medica 2 every 30 sec. It wasn't rolling HoTs like I enjoyed so much on WoW Resto Druid, but it was close enough and covered for a lot of minor messups by party members. This would be a little like that.

Knock yourself out. I tried to catch every healer related one but a couple might have slipped through the net

I did finally get around to this. Here are the healer posts I found that were not asking for more damage abilities. While some were kind of just whatever posts, many were of people saying they like healers right now, or asking for - shocker I'm sure - more healing abilities:

“SCH main here. No. I specifically play healer because I don't want to dedicate any mental real estate to pressing buttons.
If you want a real rotation go play a DPS.”

“Play SMN then. It's almost as braindead as healer DPS.”

“Then go play another job if you find it boring.”
(Those three were from the same poster)

“I'd say removal of all DPS skills and make healing actually necessary.”

“People hate the current system too. It's healer, not DPS. If you want to 1-2-3 something, queue as a DPS.
And getting rid of "all" DPS is obviously not the way it'd go, but moving the focus from having to DPS to actually needing skill to heal a party.”

“SGE Main - I think we're in a pretty good spot. But some niceties might include:
• A good "Oh Shit" single target heal. Not as good as Bene, obviously, but something similar to an auto-crit Excog.
• Temporary full party Kardia.
• Ticks from E. Dosis trigger Kardia heals. Lower potency than direct damage triggers, of course.”

“Not sure. Currently SCH already feels quite busy and clicky as it is and flows well. Plus, my hotbar is already really full.
I think I'd rather see upgrades to existing skills over more buttons.”

“Sch, as specifically an upgrade to dissipation, the fairy jumps on your shoulder (or head if lala) and doubles up on any aetherflow action including energy drain for a short period of time”

“toxicon and phlegma are used in single target too, adding more would just be button float.
phlegma especially, I always find sam having a big skill one expansion and a st/aoe version the next expansion stupid as hell.”

“As a SCH I feel like my job is pretty complete right now. I would be OK with getting anything.
If I had to choose, I guess I would want more fairy abilities that are on the oGCD.”

“WHM: Uber blood Lily? I don’t know, I just want the bloody lily to feed a damage gain.
SCH: Summon Seraph gets upgraded to Titania, for we are her lovely branch.”

“Not my main (anymore), but there's a tweak I'd really like to see on WHM. Namely, its resource generation looks (IMO) bizarre next to every other healer. When you zone in somewhere, Sage starts out with all Addersgall charges. AST has all charges of Draw ready to go. SCH can instantly get all charges of Aetherflow as soon as combat starts with the touch of a button.
WHM though? Fuck you, generate each lily from scratch slowly and only in combat.
Downvote me all you want, call me a scrub, whatever, but IMO I think WHM should also begin an instance with all its lilies to bring it more in line with the other healers. That way you can immediately dump them into blood lily on trash, or hold them for heals during the pull.”

“The ability for more damage to trigger kardia, like dots, just with a weaker potency. I know that that is a nightmare to balance, what with more targets = more heals, but warrior already has that and it would make it a lot easier to incentivise me to move it around to other players to quickly top them up if needed if kardia was putting out more healing.”

“As a SGE main, more Icarus.
How am I supposed to outrun the tank in dungeons if they have one more use of their gap closer than I do?”

“Honestly, I think all the jobs feel really complete at this point- so I'm personally only hoping for small QoL stuff, cool animation/potency upgrades for abilities, and maybe some transforming skills for the finale of some burst windows.”

“For WHM I would like OCD Alliance wide AoE rezz with 100% heal on top of it. Miracle would be a fitting name.”

“Auto-Life for Healers (basically let’s whoever is under this survive one mortal blow.)”

“As AST I want to see LESS abilities, please take away that horrible haste buff that forces our lightspeed into 2m
That or give us some MOBILITY, I want something instant I can press to move like lilies or ruin or whatever the sage one is
This is only rly a problem for savage but still... please let me move lol”

“Not my main but i rlly want faerie butterfly wings for sch or just something faerie related tbh”

“Extra Icarus dash/more safe mobility in general would be awesome but probably super overpowered”

“Animation updates for cure 1, diagnosis, physick etc. No actual buff, just make them look awesome.”

“Yes an gap closer to the Tank would be nice ”

“AST - more charges on everything, plus a second charge on Earthly Star”

“A direct heal 'Oh Shit' button for Sage... Barriers are nice, but they are no benediction. Even something that just gives pure massive shield to a single target would be nice.”

“I think all healer jobs deserve gap closers personally.”

“As a SCH player, really just an instant shield (a la Divine Benison) and an actual point to the Fairie Gauge. It feels so vestigial at this point that you could add literally any skill and tie it to the gauge and I'd be happy. Or not even a skill, but a trait or something where your next GCD heal has its potency increased relative to the Faerie Gauge, immediately dropping it back to zero. Not super interesting but it would take zero effort to implement and feel like the gauge had a real purpose, even if it's passive.”

“RERAISE! RERAISE! RERAISE!”

“Ast: Perhaps a tool that lets you instacast spells, so you actually have some mobility again.
(*weeps in Lightspeed being hard required for 2 min windows*)”

“Honestly, I feel a gap-closer should be standard, if not for every class, at least for healers. If boss fights are going to be Bollywood dance numbers, might as well move to the rhythm amirite?”

“Sch: the ability to swap spots with eos.”

“WHM gap closer as well.”

“I've played GNB, SCH, SMN for basically this whole expac, aside from time leveling the others to cap.
I literally don't want anything. SCH might be leaning on too bloated as it is. I want them to leave all three as close as they can to what they are now.”

“Im honestly very satisfied with sages kit. I just hope they dont take things away lol.”

“AST: I want the card system changed. I like the idea of the AST buffing party members with the cards, but the system doesn't feel rewarding when done right, but punishing when done wrong. It should feel like the opposite.
SCH: I want a big heal cd. Like our big heal cd is pooling our instant aoe heals and spamming them then. But I want a big healing button“

“Ability to stay the same for two exansions in a row...
I'm an Astrologian...”

“AST: Draw and Play are now GCDs but both do same damage as Malefic so that it is dps neutral.
Draw while out of combat is only 15 CD instead of usual 30 so AST teams don't have to count down to 30 second. T_T
Maybe an extra ogcd heal for lvl 100 skill”

“Sage: Kardia for party, party gets the benefit of Kardia for a set time.”

“Idea for AST: a trait that allows Celestial Opposition to trigger Horoscope Helios.”

“AST… Screw it. At high level, just “upgrade” some of our existing buttons to something completely different. We’ll still have them when we sync down.”

“AST - make dealing with cards more meaningful or interesting, not just % damage increase.”

“As an ASTRO, I would love to finally utilize my cards in a more complex way!!Different effects for each card please!!”

“Skill bloat on my healers is becoming a major problem tbh - I'd actually love for skills to be consolidated where possible, to make room for new, shiny skills.”

Lots asking for AOE Kardia, too. That seemed to be a pretty common request (something I've said over and over again as well), and lots of people saying their hotbars are full/bloated and they actually want less abilities, not more. This latter camp was mostly asking for ability upgrades, not new abilities or more abilities.

Also, not healers, but a lot of PLDs asking for a Raise spell (like...a LOT), and a lot of RDMs and DNCs asking for more healing aiblities in various ways (mostly RDMs). A lot of WARs were also asking for more healing abilities, but sarcastically, and a lot of DRKs were asking for them to get some, not sarcastically.

.

EDIT:

So, there's an obviously horribly imbalanced suggestion in there in giving every GCD heal a filler attack's worth of damage and 100 MP via Misery's refund (so that Glare is literally pointless, since you can just Cure or Regen for equal damage at lesser cost), but without that you're left with... WHM pretty much exactly as it is now, but with the balance of GCD heals' MP costs relative to each other improved and a GCD defensive buff whose intended tuning (and therefore usage) I'm uncertain of.

Granted, that was a spitball example, and even if it weren't, people can change their mind / improve upon their past ideas.

Somewhat, yes. More I'm trying to find ways of making GCD heals not DPS losses so that we're "allowed" to use them (yes, I know we can hit the buttons, but you know what I mean - that they aren't the "bad" option to be avoided unless you're out of all your non-GCD spell options first).

My thought on the mitigation would be something like this:

Level 20: Protect. 60 sec CD (probably oGCD). Reduces all physical damage taken by party members within 20y by 5% for 10 seconds.

Level 40: Trait upgrade of Protect to Pro-Shell. 60 sec CD (probably oGCD). Reduces all physical and magical/all damage taken by party members within 20y by 5% for 10 seconds.

Level 70: Trait upgrade of Pro-Shell to Plenary Indulgence. 60 sec CD (probably oGCD). Reduces all physical and magical/all damage taken by party members within 20y by 5% for 10 seconds and grants Confession to self and nearby party members. (Basically, current PI but also reduces all damage taken by 5% for the 10 sec duration).

As to why:

At present, WHM has one party mitigation, Temperance, on a 120 sec CD, that reduces all damage taken by party members within 50y by 10% for 20 seconds. We could contrast this with the other Healers, but why? They all clearly destroy WHM in this category. Let's make it a fair fight. Let's compare WHM's party mitigation to the [u]two most selfish and non-buffing Jobs in the entire game[/i], BLM and SAM

BLM has Addle on a 90 sec CD. This is 30 sec shorter than Temperance. It lowers physical damage by 5% and magical by 10%. Raidwides are generally magical, and seldom last longer than 10 sec. Meaning for all intents and purposes, BLMs using Addle provide MORE PARTY MITIGATION than WHM's using Temperance.

SAM has Feint on a 90 sec CD. Same thing, this time physical at 10% and magical at 5%. It's weaker against most (but not all) raidwides, but still available more often, and again is better than Temperance when against physical raidwides.

While Feint and Addle require the boss being targetable, and we can argue about Temperance's magical buffing and longer duration...the fact that we have to talk about those other things to make Temperance sound better than FEINT AND ADDLE shows just how bad WHM's mitigation kit is vs the rest of the Jobs in the game. RDM has Magicked Barrier in addition to Addle, making it already better at party mitigation in most cases than WHM, as it can use Magicked Barrier like Temperance when the boss is untargetable, and can use Addle when the boss is targetable.

But WHM isn't competing with BLM for a raid spot. WHM is competing with AST. AST, which has Collective once per minute (10% damage reduction for 5 sec if flashed, for 18+5 sec if held/channeled for the duration), and Neutral Sect (120 sec CD, increases healing by 20%, and provides Aspected Helios a party-wide shield for 125% of its 250 potency, boosted by 20%). And, obviously, is WOEfully behind SCH and SGE (but at least isn't competing against them for a raid spot).

I'll also note, Semi has agreed with me on this being a good idea.

And Semi pretty much hates my guts, which should tell you it's a good idea.

.

But yes, it is a spitball example. I've also proposed other changes to WHM:

1) Casting 3x Glares grants a stack of Holy Might (or some such), doubling the potency of the next Glare; or alternatively (and I like this one better), IF AND ONLY IF we make Holy ranged cast like Cure 3 where you can use it on a target or use it centered on yourself (this allows casting it on the boss from range), 4x the potency of the next Holy cast (600 potency and a damage gain over Glare); it can make it instant (like PLD does Holy Spirit) not, I'm fine either way. This could give a PLD-lite rotation of Glare, Glare, Glare, Holy, and bring Holy into the single target rotation. If for SOME reason people don't like Holy, then it can turn the Holy button into Banish once proced and Banish will do that damage instead.

Note this is an idea that Ty has said he kind of liked as WHM being a sort of Caster parallel to PLD. Which, I agree, would be thematically cool. And I just like the idea of getting to actually use HOLY, the ultimate White Magic spell, in combat against the mighty dragons and such of the world instead of relegating it to a flashy light show against lesser minions in mindless wall-to-wall pulls. Speaking of that...

2) Casting 3x Holys (must damage at least one target) grants Holy Retribution; the next Misery cast will not consume a Blood Lily. This is to change the AOE rotation from just Holyspam. Holy is a DPS loss on single target, so "farming" Misery this way against a boss would be a damage loss. And the requirement it must damage a target precludes this being used during downtime to prep an extra Misery. Likewise, it doesn't encourage pre-casting a Holy when the boss is about to become targetable again (though this is technically already done by some people because it is an ever so slight DPS gain) since it require 3x Holies for the Holy Retribution proc, not just one (this is not a "nourishes the Blood Lily" effect; this is more like PLD's Holy Might). To give you some loose idea, I'm thinking something like DRK's The Blackest Knight/Dark Arts effect here, though it's triggered like PLD's Holy Might (1-2-3 combo, though in this case, it's 1-1-1). Where it negates the cost of the next Misery as opposed to generating Blood Lily, if that makes sense, like how Dark Arts doesn't generate MP, it negates the MP cost of the next Edge/Flood of Shadow.

3) Make Assize a GCD with a 30 sec CD. Obviously, the potency would need to be a bit higher. Right now it does 400 "free", so maybe something like 600 potency to the first target and 50% less for all remaining targets would be the ticket (400 *30/40 = 300; that is, it normalizes, with its current CD to 100 potency per 10 sec, so adding the GCD from a foregone Glare cast should put that at 300 + 310 = ~600 to the first target worth of potency, and 300 to all others). Reduces the burst a bit, so might make it 625 or 650? If we implement this along with 1, it means you'd have a rotation of Assize, 3Glare, 1Holy, 3G, 1H, 3G, A, H, 3G, H, 3G, H, 2G, A if no damage is being taken by the party. Of course, it wouldn't be exactly this, since you're also using 3 Lilies in there somewhere, and then a Misery after the 1/2/etc min Assizes, especially the even minutes, for buff windows.

4) I've thought about Aero 3 because people like it so much, but honestly, making Assize a 30 sec CD and making 3 Glares proc a Holy (and for AOE, 3 Holies proc a Misery) mixes things up pretty nicely without it. Alternatively, have Assize upgrade to Aero 3 (animation, not DoT), and later to Banish and be that 30 sec CD. I think Assize is better, but I don't mind any of those outcomes since it's the same result.

.

Those aren't exactly "don't change anything" (lest someone wrongly call me "inflexible" as I make the best Gumby impersonation of anyone here...)

You don't even know I want.

You want more damage and/or buff buttons on healer Jobs, more complexity on all of them.

Is this not so? Do you NOT want more damage and/or buff buttons on healer Jobs, more complexity on all of them.?

Sounds like I do know what you want.

The specifics aren't exactly relevant when stating that what you want is, to me, a punishment not a reward. I do not see more damage buttons as a reward, I see it as a punishment. I do not see more complexity as a reward, I see it as a punishment. Do you NOT want more damage buttons and more complexity?

Where did I say "1-2-3 combo"?

I don't even think you know what my stance is other than I want to see all 4 healers changed and be more complexed.

That's literally what I'm calling a punishment, not a reward - all 4 healers changed to be more complex. I mean, it sounds like I understand your position correctly and am responding correctly to that. HOW complex isn't what I see as the punishment. Making them more complex is what I see as the punishment. Therefore, you wanting them to be more complex - which you DO, yes? - I accurately say is what I see as a punishment.

(Also, for the record, I read every post I reply to. All of them. Why do you think my posts are so long?! Because I try to reply to all of it that I think is applicable and needs replied to, which is...pretty much always most of it unless I lose my cool enough to stop mid-reply.)

So why do I say WHM vets are being alienated by "leaving WHM alone"? Because they are.

Who are "they"? I'm a WHM vet, and I'm not being alienated by leaving WHM alone. I'd be alienated by changing WHM, just as SMNs were alienated when SMN was changed out from under them. I thought it was wrong then and I'd think it's wrong if we do it to WHM.

You are unwilling to compromise and give them anything.

Read my above 3/4 points. Not only am I willing to compromise - far more than you are, I'm also willing to completely give up ever again playing and enjoying the other three healer Jobs. It's insane to me you guys think I'm being inflexible and not compromising when I'm literally the only one actually giving ground, and the ground is giving you outright 75% of the healer Jobs and giving you part of the remaining 25% as well. Imagine if one nation declares war on a second, and the second agrees to give them 75% of their land and allow joint governance of a fifth of the remaining 25% they're keeping themselves. Where they are outright giving up 75% of their territory and are sharing 5% so they only have 20% of their original holdings to themselves...and the other nation says "You're being inflexible and not compromising!"

You're literally telling them "your class can't see improvements for your engagement ...

I DO NOT SEE MORE COMPLEXITY AS AN IMPROVEMENT. I'm not sure how this is hard to understand.

I know you see it as one, but if you're going to put words in my mouth ("You're literally telling them"), then they have to be words from my perspective. If I was proposing making their Job more complex, from my perspective, THAT would be telling them "Your class can't be fun to play and you have to be punished with worse engagement and worse gameplay". Get it?

And I'm even compromising ON THAT TOO.

Your stance has pretty much been "leave one healer alone 0 changes" - that healer pretty much being WHM.

Meaning I'm giving up THREE HEALERS TO YOU AND YOUR COMPLEXITY HORRIBAD AND UNFUN GAMEPLAY!

A position I've even become malleable on since I've even proposed making WHM (or SCH if it was the "less changed one") more complicated TOO.

I don't want Aero 3 because IT WAS A GARBAGE ABILITY.

I don't want a dps kit rotation because IT'S A GARBAGE AND UNFUN GAMEPLAY (to me).

As to the third one...what? I've proposed - several times - WHM getting more Lily spenders, either for barriers like Benison or for a HoT like Regen or Medica 2. That one's you just being wrong.

So are you truly about no changes?

Honestly? No. Even my ideal situation would be WHM getting a party mitigation on a 1 min CD (ideally Plenary gaining that effect). So even my most extreme "no change" position actually entails minor changes.

LESS ideally, my Glare->empowered Holy/Holy->Dark Arts Misery/Assize GCD with a 30 sec CD are all me being malleable and offering changes. WHILE, again, giving up completely ALL THREE other healers as blood sacrifice/tribute to your god of complexity.

...which, once again, is me being far more malleable and flexible than literally any of you have been towards my position.

[Renathras]

Because none of your stances are actually compromising the concern in question.

By that token, none of yours are.

What you want "some change for all healers". Not getting into specifics, you want AT LEAST some change.

What I wanted "no change for (ideally) all healers". Again, not specifics, my ideal would be to maintain the playstyle we have.

GRANTED, I decided quite some time ago that the role needs to not be homogenized, so I came around quickly to the idea that some of the Healer Jobs SHOULD be changed for the sake of appealing to more people. But this wasn't what I wanted for me, this is what I wanted for the good of others/good of the game/compromising my ideal for what, instead, I realize would make the most people happy.

As I've said before, I'll stop playing the more complex Jobs, I'm sacrificing them for other people. It's not "I've got my WHM, I don't care about the rest!", it's "I like all the Healers right now, but for the sake of compromise and others being happy, I'll give them up as long as there's just one - and you can even pick which - that I get to have to be happy on myself. Me AND the other people like me, so we can also be happy.". Not to go overboard with the charity altruism bit, but it's like a person giving 95% of their paycheck to feed poor orphans but saying "I need to keep this 5% so I can buy food so I don't starve myself and my family (those like me)", and you're saying "You're heartless for not giving it all to the orphans...you and your family don't need food, and you'll be happier if you never eat again anyway, trust me, I'm a nutritionist."

.

What have you given up to "no change"? Literally nothing. You THINK reducing the amount of change you're asking for is giving up something, but it's not, since the compromise would be you opening to something being "no change".

I think this is what you aren't getting - by not giving any "no change" (no, CNJ does not count unless it is A FULL JOB - and you giving snide insults while even contemplating it also isn't helpful) - you aren't actually giving anything up. As you say, there are infinite possibilities for change...and that is what you want, one of those versions of change. That's like you wanting us to eat fruit and me wanting to eat meat, me suggesting we eat one part meat and three parts fruit, and you suggesting you're open to apples as well as oranges; they're both fruit. Either way you're still getting what you want and I'm not getting what I want. Even with my proposal you're getting most of what you want. And you suggesting you're willing to eat peaches as well doesn't change that STILL being what you want, meaning you're not giving up anything.

Conversely, I've compromised on the position. I've given up "no change SCH", "no change AST", and "no change SGE" upping into "changes for all of SCH, AST, and SGE". I've even given up changes for WHM. I've given up "change for any 3, you pick". I've even given up "minor changes for WHM you get the other three" and "fine then, minor (but larger than the prior WHM suggestion) changes for SCH and you still get the rest".

You can say I still want some of "no change", but that's literally what a compromise IS; that I get SOME of what I want and you get SOME of what you want. What your perspective is seems to be that you not getting AS MUCH change as you want is you compromising the concern in question.

And I'm not even getting ANY of what I want - "no change" - in any of the proposals at this point. My WHM and SCH proposal ARE BOTH CHANGE. Meaning I am getting literally NOTHING that I want from them. I'm having to sacrifice to a lower standard of "I guess I can still be...not happy and not having fun, but content...with this", and you act like me being grudgingly content is somehow me being selfish and happy and refusing all change!

.

But the concern in question is not "complete change vs partial change". It's "complete change vs no change".

So me giving up 3 of the healers and also giving up on no change for the remaining 1 IS compromise ON the concern in question.

That is what is the opposite of inflexible.

.

Meanwhile, you've given up nothing. You get more complexity for all four healers. What you've given up is "not getting EVERYthing you want", while I'm getting nothing I want. Even the "minor change to 1" is not what I want. Recall what I want is no change (well, Protect, but that aside). Except I'm not even sure you've given up that. You've offered variations of complex - but that's what you want; something from the "infinite possibilities" of complex. Where is the giving something up?

AST as a more complex buffer instead of a more complex damage dealer? But that's what you want - more complex Green Job. That's not you giving something up. I'm not sure how this is difficult to understand.

A good compromise means everyone is getting something that they want, but also giving up something they want. Your idea of compromise seems to be you aren't getting everything you want, but I'm getting nothing I want at all. That's not compromise, that's you benefiting at my expense.

Person 1: "Give me $100!"
Person 2: "How about I give you $0? I need to take this $100 to buy something for me to eat so I don't starve and put the rest in savings."
P1: <pulls gun>
P2: "Okay, how about I give you $50?"
P1: <racks slide>
P2: "Okay, how about I give you $75?"
P1: <pulls the hammer back>
P2: "Okay okay! I'll give you $80 and if you let me break this $20 I'll take you to McDonalds and we can split it on each of us getting a value meal each, how's that sound?"
P1: "You aren't compromising the concern in question. You're being inflexible."
P2: "What would be a compromise?"
P1: "You give me $80 and then working with me on how to spend your other $20, obviously."
P2: "You're being inflexible..."
P1: "YOU'RE the one being inflexible. There are infinite possibilities of ways we could spend your $20 after you give me the $80. I'm being completely flexible in letting you work with me on how to spend your $20."

You WILL, of course, disagree with this assessment, but that's what this has been from my perspective. I give up and give up and give up. You take and take and take and want more. And the only compromise you've made is that you're willing to not get everything you want...but you're still getting everything you want. You say you're being flexible because there are "infinite possibilities"...of getting what you want, which is the healer Jobs being more complex. If the infinite possibilities are all things you want, then you aren't compromising/giving anything up.

And you're asking me to give up everything for you to get what you want...and then calling me inflexible and calling me unwilling to compromise, and in generally being really snide and condescending, even as I give up more and more over time and you continue to give up nothing, just proposing different versions of you getting what you want in different ways.

It boggles my mind how you're unable to see this. Or even, while disagreeing, see how _I_ see it this way.

.

Yes, yes, I get it: You think going from HIGHLY complex into STILL highly complex for a skill ceiling but not as big of a gap between that and the skill floor and the skill floor being moderate instead of high is somehow a compromise. But it's still you getting everything you want, which is more complex healers. You aren't actually giving me something that I want. You're (debatably) getting less of what you want...except you aren't. A complex buffing AST is still a thing you want. So it's not you giving up something. A complex WHM with a high skill ceiling is still something you want, it having a low skill floor...is also something you either want or think the game needs. So either way, it's not you giving up something. There's not a compromise on your part there. You're just saying, while we both know you want fruit, that you're open to apples or pears or plums; but they're all fruit.

.

And then you spend the last half of your post insulting me. Lovely.

If it weren't representative of the broader playerbase (and instead so skewed in our interests as to be incompatible with any desire for 'the greater good'), then why even bother?

Because I believe in the value of reasoned and rational debate, of people compromising and coming together on solutions that they all can be content with, and I'm terrified of the idea the Devs actually read these forums and don't see any dissenting positions and somehow arrive at the insane conclusion this IS how everyone feels and ruin the game because of it.

Because I somehow am an enteral optimist that if I keep at it long enough, reason and unity can prevail...and that if I give up, the most dire thing will happen. That's why I haven't left and not looked back yet. If I wasn't afraid you guys MIGHT destroy the game, I would have. I have taken vacations (self-imposed) several times because this place sometimes DOES get to be too much.

.

Oh, and what I mean by "mistake":

A mistake is when you see something needs to be done and you do something else.

If you don't see your DoT fall off, it's not a "mistake" to not refresh it. I'm sure I'm not wording this well enough, but I think of mistake as "you know what you should do and do something else". E.g. you press 1-2-2 on WAR when you know 1-2-3 is the rotation, and you KNOW you just pressed 1-2 and that you should be pressing 3, but hit 2. It's that Homer Simpson "D'oh!" moment where you knew the right thing to do even as you screwed it up and then mentally beat yourself up for it basically as your finger is coming off the button.

If you don't see the DoT fall off, you don't know it should be refreshed, so pressing Glare instead of Dia is not you making a mistake (hitting the wrong/suboptimal button) to your awareness. You're making the correct decision based on the information you had at the time of "I put my DoT up...I'm supposed to spam Glare for a while..." This is why I specifically harp on how bad the UI is at telling us when DoTs fall off, since there's no feedback at all of it happening. Even something as little as a sound que (like how we get a chime when we get another Lily or Misery blooms or a SGE shield breaks to give an Addersting, etc) would be useful. Not everyone processes information the same way. In battle, I process by sound and sight, but not by tracking tiny icons on a target bar that all blend together.

My issue isn't seeing my DoT icon. My issue is when there are 20 icons on the boss, I can't notice when any given SPECIFIC one falls off.

Alternatively, I guess WHM's got part of an idea going on, with the 'damage on cast', if you were to change Biolysis from 700p total to '250, plus 55p per tick for 550, full total of 700', it's the same overall damage, but you lose less damage by early refreshing it. Though, at those numbers, that'd kill Ruin 2 , but it's an example

Didn't I literally propose this? I mean, not EXACTLY that (my Miasma was a second DoT in addition to Biolysis), but basically this same idea of damage up front and a replacement movement tool vs current Ruin 2?

Replace Ruin II with Miasma. Miasma is an instant cast ability that does an initial point of damage (like Dia) and has a small and shortish duration HoT attached. An expansion would, of course, change numbers, but think something like 200 Potency with a 30 potency DoT that has a 15 second duration (total potency of the DoT would be 5x 30 potency ticks for 150 total + 200 of the base damage = 350 overall) such that it would be a mild DPS gain over Broil IV, but not over Biolysis, and with enough of the damage up front that using it for a movement tool where you have to overwrite the DoT one or two times still produces decent output (spamming it would only do 20 less potency than SCH does with Ruin II now). This would give SCH a second DoT to juggle, making Miasma a consistent part of its rotation ~4x a minute, while also maintaining Ruin II's general use as a movement tool. Ruin II could be repuposed as part of the Broil leveling line for SCH's from level 40-something until they get Broil at 54 as just a flat upgrade to Ruin I, or could simply be entirely removed. The reason I couch this as "replace Ruin II with Miasma" is to stress that it's in the rotation designed as a movement tool/Ruin II replacement, but is a marginal DPS gain if maintained with high uptime. Finally, generates 5 Faerie Gauge per DoT Tick (this will be important later...but the short version is it can be used to generate more Energy Drains for damage or more Aetherpacts for healing if you maintain good uptime.)
...
Summary:

Ruin II replaced with Miasma: Instant cast, 400 MP cost, GCD that deals 200 Potency on initial hit (down 20 from current Ruin II), but has a 30 potency DoT for 15 seconds (5 ticks for 150 more, a total of 350 Potency or 55 gain over Broil IV), generates 5 Faerie Gauge per tick (for use on Aetherflow mini-Lustrates or Energy Drains). Useful as a movement tool for a relatively low DPS loss, useful as an upkeep DoT for a marginal gain over Broil IV spam, ideal 4x per min refresh.

Also:

I don't disagree with you that people who aren't casuals can also be bad at DoT management. Personally, I'd like a healer to not have a DoT. As I've said before, I'd rather a CD GCD with the same duration instead (like Plegma, say). I like SMN and RDM...because neither has a DoT or upkeep buff. They and ARGUABLY PLD and GNB and arguably MCH (their DoTs are part of their rotation and not managed for uptime) have managed to evade either of those mechanics. Every other Job I've played has one, the other, or both, I think. And as much as people rag on SMN and new PLD, RDM, GNB, and MCH seem generally well respected despite this.

The entire point of 4 Healers Model is for them to be different, just as other roles and Jobs are allowed to be. The "no change/minor change/complete change" business aside, the point is to have options not four flavors of the exact same thing.

[ty_taurus]

I give up and give up and give up. You take and take and take and want more.

Stop talking as if healer design is something you own and is by your graceful charity that we are allowed to even discus wanting changes on any healer. They are not your property or the property of anyone else here. You keep using phrases like "I'm giving them to you" as if they're yours to give in the first place. I hate to break it to you, but they aren't. It is not your god-given right to have a healer exactly the way you want in a video game.

"I need to keep this 5% so I can buy food so I don't starve myself and my family (those like me)", and you're saying "You're heartless for not giving it all to the orphans...you and your family don't need food, and you'll be happier if you never eat again anyway, trust me, I'm a nutritionist."

Please don't act like you not getting White Mage exactly the way it is now will actually kill you. Relax. We've been over this. You'd still be able to clear everything you're already capable of clearing with as much ease regardless of how well you take to any changes. The only difference is that you can't try to claim you're better than other players for just hitting one button. That is what's at stake here.

It boggles my mind how you're unable to see this.

I boggles my mind that you believe there's no humanly conceivable way a healer could ever be more enjoyable than they are right now--that no human can create a greater work of art to impress you and are completely inflexible to any and all ideas that could perhaps satisfy you and everyone else at the same time. Wait, you did bring up such a suggestion before with a Paladin inspired White Mage, and we were on the same page there. Are we allowed to talk about that yet and move onto a a productive conversation? Or are you still shoving your fingers in your ears and chanting "LA LA LA! I Can't hear you!"?