Old content is too easy and needs some tweaks

[Yumi-Yumi]

So recently I've been discussing a lot with my friends about the game, and one argument that came up and we all agreed about was the state of old instanced content.

The game has a lot of dungeons and trials from the previous expansions that are very fun to experience, the problem is that it didn't age well due to the constant changes to jobs and stats with each expansion and it being synced with the highest possible item level of the expansion it came out in. This results in said content being very boring and extremely easy to clear but not in a fun way.
Entire phases and mechanics (that can be failed with basically no downside) are skipped and a lot of the fun running those instances is lost because of this, both for new players playing through the game and "veteran" players running roulettes or helping friends.

I get not making the game too hard for new players or tedious for players running roulettes, but I think this is a bit too extreme in many instances. For example in "The Vault" the bosses die so fast that they can barely show their mechanics or say their voicelines, even worse is Thordan which is absolutely pathetic right now and an absolutely underwhelming experience for a final boss of an expansion. A8 doesn't even get to the best part of the music anymore.

I really think that old content should get some kind of adjustment to its stats to make it more in line with current endgame content so that it is more engaging for everyone, while also maintaining its uniqueness and fun factor of when it came out.

Now I'm not saying that old content should go back to be a major cause of wiping where getting a group with a bunch of new players results in wipes and people leaving the instance, but at least find a balance where said content can be experienced to its fullness without feeling like something you can do while half asleep.
Obviously rewards could be adjusted as needed to compensate for the extra time it would take to run content.

What does everyone think? Do you agree or think it is fine as it is right now?

Thanks for reading, first time I'm posting on the forum but I wanted to share my thoughts on this matter

[kpxmanifesto]

Oh yeah, I completely agree. I brought this up a while ago too. Take the King Thordan fight for instance, like you mentioned. I can probably get hit by a majority of the mechanics and be just fine.


Welcome to the FFXIV Official Forums, by the way.

[Stormpeaks]

Oh yeah, I completely agree. I brought this up a while ago too. Take the King Thordan fight for instance, like you mentioned. I can probably get hit by a majority of the mechanics and be just fine.


Welcome to the FFXIV Official Forums, by the way.

That's literally the same thing in lvl 90 content though, a lot of the mechanics can easily be survived, low content is as "easy" as end game content, minus savage and ultimate, and even then savage really isnt the hardest thing to do

[kpxmanifesto]

That's literally the same thing in lvl 90 content though, a lot of the mechanics can easily be survived, low content is as "easy" as end game content, minus savage and ultimate, and even then savage really isnt the hardest thing to do

Eh, I got killed by the wave of water while fighting Althyk and Nymeia for the first time. There's a few things in Euphrosyne that will kill the player if you get hit more than twice. Thordan tho? Nah.

[AwesomeJr44]

Some of the older dungeon and raid (primarily Alexander ones) bosses just need more HP and they should be relatively fine, but some of the trials and alliance raids need their min ilv caps reduced.

Any trial that is an expansion capstone fight (Thordan, Shinryu, Hades, Endsinger) gets heavily screwed over by increasing ilvs throughout the expansion, so all of those are going to need a ilv cap to prevent this from happening. A mega easy fight is not really a good way to end an expansion's story, especially when said boss is typically hyped up to be super strong and powerful. I've gotten Thordan a few times in trial roulette lately and I've had runs where we got him to 0.1% before he leaves.

As for alliance raids, Crystal Tower is just too easy and braindead due to item level. You can actually see this at play by looking at the World of Darkness raid. That raid's min ilv is much closer to the ilv cap for ARR, and it shows as the mechanics actually matter to an extent and are dangerous enough to kill you. I personally think that the World of Darkness would be a good standard difficulty for ARR alliance raids. Thus, I think a max ilv cap should be introduced to LotA and Syrcus Tower to try and emulate that same difficulty level. This would also technically re-introduce mechanics to those two raids, making those raids more interesting.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Some of the older dungeon and raid (primarily Alexander ones) bosses just need more HP and they should be relatively fine, but some of the trials and alliance raids need their min ilv caps reduced.

Any trial that is an expansion capstone fight (Thordan, Shinryu, Hades, Endsinger) gets heavily screwed over by increasing ilvs throughout the expansion, so all of those are going to need a ilv cap to prevent this from happening. A mega easy fight is not really a good way to end an expansion's story, especially when said boss is typically hyped up to be super strong and powerful. I've gotten Thordan a few times in trial roulette lately and I've had runs where we got him to 0.1% before he leaves.

As for alliance raids, Crystal Tower is just too easy and braindead due to item level. You can actually see this at play by looking at the World of Darkness raid. That raid's min ilv is much closer to the ilv cap for ARR, and it shows as the mechanics actually matter to an extent and are dangerous enough to kill you. I personally think that the World of Darkness would be a good standard difficulty for ARR alliance raids. Thus, I think a max ilv cap should be introduced to LotA and Syrcus Tower to try and emulate that same difficulty level. This would also technically re-introduce mechanics to those two raids, making those raids more interesting.

More HP is the worst way to fix this, as all its doing is just padding out the same brain easy song and dance. What needs to happen is to buff up boss damage, and find a way to allow maxed out characters to use their full toolkit.

[AwesomeJr44]

More HP is the worst way to fix this, as all its doing is just padding out the same brain easy song and dance.

A lot of the older dungeon and raid bosses already have decent mechanics, you just never see them because the boss dies before it gets to use them. If you want to talk about a specific example that should be changed, then I might even agree that said example might need more fixing than a simple HP buff, but in general, older bosses just need an HP boost so you can see the mechanics that already exist.

What needs to happen is to buff up boss damage

I agree depending on which specific boss we are talking about. I do not agree if we are speaking in general terms.

and find a way to allow maxed out characters to use their full toolkit.

Even if the devs found a way to do this that didn't make low-level characters dead weight, it will never be implemented well. If you give maxed characters their full toolkit while synced, you are going to have one of two problems depending on how it is designed.

1) Potency is left the way it is. This makes sprouts a massive burden on the team as they would be lacking a significant amount of potency.

2) Potency is balanced to make sprouts and maxed characters have the same strength. This makes playing a maxed character frustrating as you would then have to work many times harder for the same output as someone pressing a few buttons on a lower level character.

[Yumi-Yumi]

That's literally the same thing in lvl 90 content though, a lot of the mechanics can easily be survived, low content is as "easy" as end game content, minus savage and ultimate, and even then savage really isnt the hardest thing to do

It's true that level 90 normal mode content is easy and is very forgiving but you get to see pretty much all the mechanics. It doesn't feel like you're not experiencing the content as it was intended. I'm not against having duties be new player and casual friendly. I just want old stuff to feel like it's at least balanced around the current damage and healing output. Currently it almost feels like I'm cheating when doing old instanced content.

[DixieBellOCE]

That's literally the same thing in lvl 90 content though, a lot of the mechanics can easily be survived, low content is as "easy" as end game content, minus savage and ultimate, and even then savage really isnt the hardest thing to do

Took every single hit from the final boss of Lapis Manalis, all the p9-12 bosses and MSQ Golbez as a Paladin in crafted gear.
Not even close to killing me.

There is no risk in normal content, so people can afford to be lazy and not learn to play the game.
Content needs to be harder, even if only fractionally so people actually face small challenges and their braincells activate for the first time in 9+ years and get excited over beating content.

[Kuroka]

Content needs to be harder, even if only fractionally so people actually face small challenges and their braincells activate for the first time in 9+ years and get excited over beating content.

How dare you, those lv 85 players are still new and didnt play through 500 msq quests to get there xD

its fine for ARR but towards 60-70 the game should get harder, teaching that not doing mechanics or using skills has consequences... theres so much time to ramp up...

And i just feel there need to be "walls" on solo trials where they learn "you must be THIS good to carry on" the hard way.

Not if you got 2 new healers with zodiark or hydaelyn. I was new back then, and l wiped 3 hours total on these 2 trials during msw.

I feel you... we had the same so many times. On 6.4 our Fc mate was ahead of us... he used up the full timer for Golbez... i mean sure new, he has his tricks but hes not THAT hard...