Wish there were melee DPS without positionals

[ty_taurus]

There's no reason that, with 5 melee jobs to choose from, one of them could've been a job with no positionals and another could've been very positional-heavy (i.e. Monk). The other three would be what we have currently, very minor positional requirements. People who love positionals have a job dedicated to them. People who can't stand them at all would have a melee DPS for them, and everyone else can play either of those two if they're indifferent or the other three depending on their stance.

It's almost like having different playstyles on different jobs is one of the advantages of a game that lets you change jobs with the press of a button.

[ZiraZ]

It's almost like having different playstyles on different jobs is one of the advantages of a game that lets you change jobs with the press of a button.

Yeah it's great, almost like casters, physical range and tanks already exist, positionals are already the minority, I'll never support having even less of them, stop asking them to remove things.
Do you also want to open the can of worms of how much lower the melee dps without positionals should do compared with the ones that have positionals?

[FairyDJ]

I play Ninja for the this reason. I also dragoon sometimes because all positionals are done from the boss's rear so as long as you stay behind the boss you can keep some uptime.

[Mikey_R]

I play Ninja for the this reason. I also dragoon sometimes because all positionals are done from the boss's rear so as long as you stay behind the boss you can keep some uptime.

Fang and Claw is flank, so no, they aren't all rear.

[Shurrikhan]

There's no reason that, with 5 melee jobs to choose from, one of them could've been a job with no positionals and another could've been very positional-heavy (i.e. Monk). The other three would be what we have currently, very minor positional requirements. People who love positionals have a job dedicated to them. People who can't stand them at all would have a melee DPS for them, and everyone else can play either of those two if they're indifferent or the other three depending on their stance.

It's almost like having different playstyles on different jobs is one of the advantages of a game that lets you change jobs with the press of a button.

Isn't that kind of similar to the "more damage actions / downtime complexity on healers" debate, though, except that in this case the extra engagement comes at no new/additional button cost (only extra APM through A/D and mouse movement or use of joysticks)?

If the case can be made that if a healer who doesn't want to optimize, for the extra ~3% throughput, the additional layer of complexity that others might suggest... that healer could just not do that and still be fine, why wouldn't the case be made also for the even more efficient option of positionals (or any other means/layer of engagement)?

I'd understand if it were an exchange --e.g., some other, equally contentious form of engagement tends to be more prevalent instead of positionals-- but if it's purely a reduction such that the positional-less job is simply putting in less for the same effect, there comes a point where people make like a SMN and just choose the job that's most foolproofed / offers that throughput for the least effort.

[vetch]

Yeah it's great, almost like casters, physical range and tanks already exist, positionals are already the minority, I'll never support having even less of them, stop asking them to remove things.
Do you also want to open the can of worms of how much lower the melee dps without positionals should do compared with the ones that have positionals?

They already did. The job with positionals you can mostly ignore (Ninja) has similar damage to other melee because CBU3 just shuffled the APM from 'press movement button for extra potency' to 'press action button for extra potency'.

[RyuuZero]

when I 'need' to hit a Positional I use true north as insurance, when I do a Trick Attack before TA I press True North, when I play Samurai.. thanks to the Kaiten Removal and me playing on Controller where I wanna press buttons True North is now there and with every Meikyo Shisui I do Yukikaze <True North> and the Rest though I have the Feeling that True North is kinda like in the Position of Unchained from Warrior somehow.. I mean I have the Feeling that Positionals may bite the dust.. the devs said something else in the 7.0 Key Notes in LA but their Track Record tells me otherwise. They could remove True North alongside Positionals and thus would save a Button for something else.. they did that before just worse with Samurai thanks to the Kaiten Removal

[Shurrikhan]

They could remove True North alongside Positionals and thus would save a Button for something else.. they did that before just worse with Samurai thanks to the Kaiten Removal

Save one button for on DRG at the cost of a bare minimum of 9.6 APM from the repositioning itself... >.>

Or, you know, they could just get rid of True North itself, in some way subtly correct for the gap between what the server sees and what the client sees in terms of relative positioning, and bosses jumping to the edge of the arena temporarily become omni-positional.

Voila, you keep the substantial amount of extra APM and means of player engagement, have a less problematic system in itself, and it'd have no extra button-cost.

[RyuuZero]

bosses jumping to the edge of the arena temporarily become omni-positional.

that would fix so many things it wouldn't even be funny
but seriously, I like that Idea^^ not so much the sole removal of True North but we will see.
6.0 got rid of Belts, who know what 7.0 get rid of

[Shurrikhan]

that would fix so many things it wouldn't even be funny
but seriously, I like that Idea^^ not so much the sole removal of True North but we will see.

My point was more that True North was a weird band-aid solution used in place of actual fixing the problems with positionals that had been present since ARR.

No problems over which the player cannot reasonably have agency (like the screen showing that the positional should hit, but the mechanic auto-turning the boss a quarter-second earlier in server-time says "No", or the boss jumping to where positionals literally cannot be reached) = no need for the bandaid and its button cost.

6.0 got rid of Belts, who know what 7.0 get rid of

Please be Materia, in favor of actual impactful customization that requires neither a level-capped crafter nor a gilsink and certainly no bloated inventory cost. >.>