Anyone else think caster has suffered this expansion? (hopes for the future)

[SaberMaxwell]

Rdm should have imo the lowest dps of casters, but both Rdm & Smn are too low compared to mekee & Blm.., just too low (double caster should be allowed.. , but as there are more melee classes, can see why Yoshi us pushing for double melee, but than again, there are soo many Smn players out there..)

The only possible defense of this position isn't even true in FFXIV. Summoners are so much better at being prog mage than Red Mage for so many reasons, not least the extreme mobility they have compared to Red Mage. All of their support being dps neutral is a nice bonus too, and by the time more than 1 caster raise is needed, the run is dead anyway.

In Endwalker, there is no reason SMN should do more than RDM.

[Taranok]

The only possible defense of this position isn't even true in FFXIV. Summoners are so much better at being prog mage than Red Mage for so many reasons, not least the extreme mobility they have compared to Red Mage. All of their support being dps neutral is a nice bonus too, and by the time more than 1 caster raise is needed, the run is dead anyway.

In Endwalker, there is no reason SMN should do more than RDM.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Summoner is the only caster that is designed for the fights the encounter developers are actually making. Really, the damage doesn't matter. There's a reason why BLM is simultaneously the highest DPS job in the game (in theory) and second least played job outright (behind Bard.) The caster role of sitting still and casting is essentially being waged war on by the devs. The classes flat out aren't fun to play in the fights, and most players, who don't play casters, love running around the boss all the time.

I'm a caster main. I want to sit still, and cast. But the devs want caster mains to basically quit the game with how they're actually designing the fights, or to start playing caster like a poor man's machinist. Which is not, at all, why I play casters.

Between that, the pacing of most mechanics rivaling Nael from UCOB, and the extreme movement, it's no wonder the role feels like it's been shafted the entire expansion.

[Ggwppino]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Summoner is the only caster that is designed for the fights the encounter developers are actually making. Really, the damage doesn't matter. There's a reason why BLM is simultaneously the highest DPS job in the game (in theory) and second least played job outright (behind Bard.) The caster role of sitting still and casting is essentially being waged war on by the devs. The classes flat out aren't fun to play in the fights, and most players, who don't play casters, love running around the boss all the time.

I'm a caster main. I want to sit still, and cast. But the devs want caster mains to basically quit the game with how they're actually designing the fights, or to start playing caster like a poor man's machinist. Which is not, at all, why I play casters.

Between that, the pacing of most mechanics rivaling Nael from UCOB, and the extreme movement, it's no wonder the role feels like it's been shafted the entire expansion.

first, the smn is not a caster. the sch is a caster. The smn no (also because if smn is a caster, so are rpr and sam). Second point, I don't see all this problem in forcing the caster to think about how to keep uptime, when you choose the caster you are aware that you will have to study the fight in order to keep uptime (it is the essence of the caster) and it is also the essence of the caster to sacrifice uptime when needed to reduce the damage lost as much as possible. True that 1) fights are becoming more and more dynamic making this search for uptime much more challenging.
2) the strats that players think and implement are not always friendly with the caster and here it is the player who should prevail: I let you make your beautiful strats to keep the melees uptime, but I too have needs that if they are respected they benefit everyone and the entire party dps.
If a new *true* dps caster is added in the next expansion and if the hitboxes remain quite large, it's no wonder if the balance is upset and we return to having casters dominate the dps charts like in shB and sB.

[Valence]

It's also a matter of the least path of resistance, let's be honest a minute. Which jobs are the most played by far? SMN and DNC (closely followed by samurai I guess). The fact that MNK and BRD (besides BLM), followed by RDM, are also low there on the spectrum is pretty telling.

[Ggwppino]

It's also a matter of the least path of resistance, let's be honest a minute. Which jobs are the most played by far? SMN and DNC (closely followed by samurai I guess). The fact that MNK and BRD (besides BLM), followed by RDM, are also low there on the spectrum is pretty telling.

sure, but if the smn didn't have the absurd dps it has in savage/ultimate it wouldn't be so much preferred, as the mch wasn't for 3/4 of the expansion.

If one plays the rdm it is because he is in love with the class, same thing with the blm. The smn, maybe there is (?) someone who likes it, but it is also used because it is outrageously strong for a 1 spam button class.

So clearly, especially the rdm, it has a really sinking treatment, given that the stupid cousin performs better in everything.

[Valence]

SMN has an absurd damage now? It's literally with the bottom group of mobility taxed dps... The reason it's still being taken is because the two alternatives as casters are 1) not better in the damage it brings and more complicated and 2) way better and playing in the first group of non taxed dps jobs, but way more complicated and inaccessible for a good chunk of the playerbase, especially in lower percentiles.

It's not a problem of damage, it's a problem of alternatives within the same role.

[Ggwppino]

I didn't say it does absurd damage in general, I said it does absurd damage for being a class no caster 1 spam button. It's different. It is a ranged and it is taxed. Okay. But it's relatively taxed (it's still in line with the dps required of a caster) too bad that the rdm doesn't have to spam a single no cast button to *get close* to the smn's dps. Too bad the rdm doesn't even have half a personal shield to survive a raidwave.

There is too much disparity between magic ranged classes, and penalties that just don't make sense to exist.
And this disparity is so glaring since they put a class that isn't a caster into the magical ranged role that has always been casters.

[remiff]

I didn't say it does absurd damage in general, I said it does absurd damage for being a class no caster 1 spam button. It's different. It is a ranged and it is taxed. Okay. But it's relatively taxed (it's still in line with the dps required of a caster) too bad that the rdm doesn't have to spam a single no cast button to *get close* to the smn's dps. Too bad the rdm doesn't even have half a personal shield to survive a raidwave.

There is too much disparity between magic ranged classes, and penalties that just don't make sense to exist.
And this disparity is so glaring since they put a class that isn't a caster into the magical ranged role that has always been casters.

Yes, but it's not because the devs have made the summoner a very mobile 4-button job with a personal shield that he has to suffer the consequences of the catastrophic balancing of casters of endwalker,
for this it is imperative that the devs make changes to 7.0 and reduce the summoner's mobility in a thoughtful way by adding for example 1.5s cast in bahamut and reworking the whole system behind the elemental summons.

Frankly we shouldn't expect anything before 7.0 it's the only occasion where they could make major changes on the whole role, and especially reduce the strange DPS difference between the different DPS roles.

[Valence]

I didn't say it does absurd damage in general, I said it does absurd damage for being a class no caster 1 spam button. It's different. It is a ranged and it is taxed. Okay. But it's relatively taxed (it's still in line with the dps required of a caster) too bad that the rdm doesn't have to spam a single no cast button to *get close* to the smn's dps. Too bad the rdm doesn't even have half a personal shield to survive a raidwave.

There is too much disparity between magic ranged classes, and penalties that just don't make sense to exist.
And this disparity is so glaring since they put a class that isn't a caster into the magical ranged role that has always been casters.

I never subscribed to the mentality that jobs potential should be based on "difficulty to play" so you won't get much from me on that side.

Yes, but it's not because the devs have made the summoner a very mobile 4-button job with a personal shield that he has to suffer the consequences of the catastrophic balancing of casters of endwalker,
for this it is imperative that the devs make changes to 7.0 and reduce the summoner's mobility in a thoughtful way by adding for example 1.5s cast in bahamut and reworking the whole system behind the elemental summons.

Frankly we shouldn't expect anything before 7.0 it's the only occasion where they could make major changes on the whole role, and especially reduce the strange DPS difference between the different DPS roles.

Ironically enough I kinda feel seeing what they did with melees in EW, that casters are next in line and will probably line more and more on the SMN model. Big question mark when it comes to BLM though, since they have always been unwilling to change it like all other jobs.

[Ggwppino]

I never subscribed to the mentality that jobs potential should be based on "difficulty to play" so you won't get much from me on that side.

You said that smn and dnc are the classes that are used the most in raids. I made an observation saying that if smn was treated like mch, I think we wouldn't see as many smn in savage/ultimate. The smn is in a position that is just worth carrying, always. minimum effort, maximum output and you also have the ress to easily replace the rdm with the addition that you survive raidwave if you are underequipped.

The smn is just cynically more worth carrying around. It's factual.

Ironically enough I kinda feel seeing what they did with melees in EW, that casters are next in line and will probably line more and more on the SMN model. Big question mark when it comes to BLM though, since they have always been unwilling to change it like all other jobs.

Yes, but it's not because the devs have made the summoner a very mobile 4-button job with a personal shield that he has to suffer the consequences of the catastrophic balancing of casters of endwalker,
for this it is imperative that the devs make changes to 7.0 and reduce the summoner's mobility in a thoughtful way by adding for example 1.5s cast in bahamut and reworking the whole system behind the elemental summons.

Frankly we shouldn't expect anything before 7.0 it's the only occasion where they could make major changes on the whole role, and especially reduce the strange DPS difference between the different DPS roles.

I agree with Valence. I have a strange feeling that the casters in 7.0 will have dark days, because they will be completely disowned as done with the smn.
And no, I don't expect any major changes since we're at 6.4