What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

On another note, someone evidently familiar with the cultish nature of some Yoshi fans wrote this funny little piece... XIV really should get one of its own.

[kpxmanifesto]

If people reach a certain threshold of agreeing with one of us, they get inducted into the Zodiark Trancer cult lmao

To this day I still have no idea what a Zodiark trancer is.


Edit:

Enjoyed the story up until we get to Elpis then it just falls apart for me. Knowing everything happened because of some depressed ancient and his cringe creation ruined the story for me honestly.

Same. I was really hoping it would be a hostile civilization from a different planet, but I guess that would've taken too much effort to write about.

[VelKallor]

To this day I still have no idea what a Zodiark trancer is.

Doesnt exist. Just another smear to try and discredit others viewpoints.

Knowing everything happened because of some depressed ancient and his cringe creation

entelechy, (from Greek entelecheia), in philosophy, that which realizes or makes actual what is otherwise merely potential.

In this context, Meteion was the gestalt if you like of a mentality, not one mind but thousands, overwhelmed by what they found. Hermes "question" was in itself the mistake, what you have missed is that Meteion was a massive empath, the feelings of thousands of dead worlds concatenated into who she was on Elpis, creating a "realm" that was based on emotion, not reality, the opposite of aether.

He also programmed "our" Meteion with a personality override. Literally nothing she does after she was overpowered by the collective was of her own volition, all the way up to when she manages to separate herself. She was essentially being puppeted by her sisters. She was being controlled by a hivemind that had gone insane and forced itself into her, and she had no way to disconnect herself. None of it was her fault

BlueRogue: two of my family visited a place that shall not be named here, neither of them would ever speak of what they saw or heard, I did ask, but one look into their eyes was enough to tell me I should never have asked. Now take that a step further, add in thousands of minds that are active and powerful empaths, a group mind..go back to the Dead Ends, find the logs that tell of her coming to a world and its destruction because of her.

Further, Meteion herself did not end these civilizations. Her sisters did, or did you forget that Hermes made many more like her and sent them out into the universe to ask other civilizations what they live for? Meteion is a victim here, not ONLY by Hermes' mistakes in his flawed query, but also due to Hermes making Meteion and her sisters a part of a hive mind, meaning Meteion's will is being over powered by her sisters until you are able to weaken them and somewhat free her from their power. Meteion herself is not the issue. Her sisters and Hermes' mistakes are.

An empath in this sense is a being that feels emotions not as we do, but experiences it the way you feel a punch in the gut.

[AwesomeJr44]

To this day I still have no idea what a Zodiark trancer is.

The term itself comes from a webcomic where the WoL fights Hydaelyn and uses 'Zodiark Trance'. The art was very good, but people on Reddit started making memes about the comic and eventually the term Zodiark Trancer was born. It's meant to be an insult used against people who like the Ascians/Ancients more than the Scions and/or dislike the current direction of the story. I don't think people actually take the term seriously though. I've referred to myself as one several times, playing into the joke.

Doesnt exist. Just another smear to try and discredit others viewpoints.

It's definitely a term that exists. It's not used in a serious manner very much on the forums themselves, but I've heard that it gets more unironic usage on sites like 4Chan.

[BRVV]

Doesnt exist. Just another smear to try and discredit others viewpoints.



entelechy, (from Greek entelecheia), in philosophy, that which realizes or makes actual what is otherwise merely potential.

In this context, Meteion was the gestalt if you like of a mentality, not one mind but thousands, overwhelmed by what they found. Hermes "question" was in itself the mistake, what you have missed is that Meteion was a massive empath, the feelings of thousands of dead worlds concatenated into who she was on Elpis, creating a "realm" that was based on emotion, not reality, the opposite of aether.



BlueRogue: two of my family visited a place that shall not be named here, neither of them would ever speak of what they saw or heard, I did ask, but one look into their eyes was enough to tell me I should never have asked. Now take that a step further, add in thousands of minds that are active and powerful empaths, a group mind..go back to the Dead Ends, find the logs that tell of her coming to a world and its destruction because of her.



An empath in this sense is a being that feels emotions not as we do, but experiences it the way you feel a punch in the gut.

I dont think anyone missed the empath or dynamis part. Many just dislike its i am 14 and this is deep cringe level

[VelKallor]

I dont think anyone missed the empath or dynamis part. Many just dislike its i am 14 and this is deep cringe leve

Ive heard different ingame. so no it isnt "many" just this particular hivemind. You call it "cringe", others dont. Then again, this forum is virtually all negative, anyone who argues is a 'defender" a "shill"....so please, spare me.

[AwesomeJr44]

I dont think anyone missed the empath or dynamis part. Many just dislike its i am 14 and this is deep cringe level

Dynamis as it is written in the story is so mind-numbingly dumb. Whenever its used to do something, it reminds me of that one kid at the playground who would always invent new superpowers that instantly counter anything you do, just so that he can always win.

Then again, this forum is virtually all negative, anyone who argues is a 'defender" a "shill"....so please, spare me.

Anyone who is a defender, shill, white knight, or liar is called as such because they have earned the titles for themselves. I have no problem with people who have a positive outlook on the game. I have several friends who have such viewpoints, and their opinion on the game does not impact my desire to be their friend unless they are annoying about it (aka toxic positivity, white knighting, etc). I do have a problem with white knights and liars though. You are just upset that we recognize you for what you are.

[kpxmanifesto]

The term itself comes from a webcomic where the WoL fights Hydaelyn and uses 'Zodiark Trance'. The art was very good, but people on Reddit started making memes about the comic and eventually the term Zodiark Trancer was born. It's meant to be an insult used against people who like the Ascians/Ancients more than the Scions and/or dislike the current direction of the story. I don't think people actually take the term seriously though. I've referred to myself as one several times, playing into the joke.

Lol, I see. Call me a Zodiark Trancer too, I suppose.

[Theodric]

Dynamis as it is written in the story is so mind-numbingly dumb. Whenever its used to do something, it reminds me of that one kid at the playground who would always invent new superpowers that instantly counter anything you do, just so that he can always win.

That's an excellent representation of it all. The game seems to do it with greater frequency these days and even FFXVI wasn't free of it though that game did at least show more willingness to inflict lasting harm upon the main cast.

Lol, I see. Call me a Zodiark Trancer too, I suppose.

Welcome aboard!

[Lauront]

Alright, I didn't really want to get into the rewrite business, and this isn't quite that, but I suppose I'd like to consolidate my thoughts on this to flush them out before I decide to go on another break... before the usual "WELL I SEE NOW WHY YOU'RE NOT A WRITER, TRANCER" or "I hate this it's awful " or whatever, this is largely what I would have liked to see instead of whatever it was we got. So if someone dislikes this? That's fine by me and ultimately is a matter of personal taste. All it is is a consolidation of thoughts of how I would've preferred them to resolve this. It's mostly a skeletal outline, that would imply differences in timing for some events in the plot.

It assumes everything up to EW remains as is because it frankly would take a lot more effort to rethink how I would restructure all of that. More than I'm willing to put in. In all honesty, I liked some of the ideas EW used, just not the execution or way they were put together.

Events in the ancient world:

I'll start here since really it's my biggest issue with the story, from how the role they put Venat in to Hermes's insufferable personality.

• Backstory is that the Ancients had begun showing interest in space, with Fandaniel being the foremost researcher in this domain - he was not the Fandaniel of the Convocation back then, and never would be. Instead, I would lean in on the idea that with a less than perfect crystal and him being the last seats to be recruited, coupled with the answering machine Venat had playing on loop, they struggled to find an original shard. Amon being their choice is something I'd keep.
• I would drop the angst over the creations as it was honestly difficult for me to take seriously. Instead, I would borrow an element they actually touched on in Jullus's short story, namely the impersonal and, to some eyes, senseless and cold cycle of rebirth. While the vast majority of ancients would be fine with it and view it the way Hythlodaeus describes, as aether returning to aether, a beautiful thing in which all life plays its purpose, Hermes would struggle with the lack of an evident purpose in it, and also find himself frustrated with the ancients' efforts to commune with what divinity they saw as inhering in the world (more on this later.) He would co-opt a familiar intended (repurposed Meteion) for such designs and alter it to function as an envoy as he scoured the outer regions of space for signs of divine intelligence, as well as using methods such as Kairos to ensure other researchers did not interfere with his work. Concerns about anomalies in reports coming from Elpis would be what prompted the visit by Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus to Elpis in the first place.
• Lo and behold, he actually does make contact with what he's searching for! They drew on this plot aspect in Pandaemonium, with Athena being corrupted by a stone that is apparently alien in nature. I'd maintain this link to the High Seraph, and have this be a sort of hivemind modelled after the Creator in IV's The After Years or Lavos, of which Ultima is a spawn or fragment. A highly empathic being, wielding an imperceptible form of energy that can excite emotional reactions in the aether. Dynamis done right. Meteion would bear the news, now under the control of this being.
• The being would have been hitherto unaware of Etheirys but tantalised by this world's advanced civilisation and rich aether. It would seek to embed itself in the world, but require a gate to do so, which Hermes would form in a repurposed Pandaemonium - following the lore about the facility being extricable from this dimension, it would've been done but not completely, just enough to hide it from any prying eyes. This would be the nexus of the Final Days.
• In the process of satisfying its curiosity, this being would eventually destroy a star, consuming it from inside out, leaving naught but a husk. It would be capable of then recreating puppet forms of it using its own energies (lets leave it at dynamis.) I'd adapt the Omicrons to be a mechanical effort by this being to scour the universe, only they ran into a stumbling block in the form of the dragons.
• Convinced he has found the god he sought, Hermes would be conscripted into anchoring hooks into the remaining world through the subversion of towers linked to the observation of ambient aether. Due to dynamis as an energy being imperceptible to the ancients using their then-extant observation devices, they would struggle to identify the origin and the process of devouring the world as this being emanates waves of despair through the world would begin and would identify indirect patterns of combatting it. I'd keep EW's aspect of this fraying at the world's aetheric currents and being a weaker energy that could be combated through overwhelming it by aether, especially if directed at it from a resolved mind.
• The Convocation summons Zodiark. Hermes is convinced the alien will be able to subvert him if his heart is removed, and is aware of a faction of ancients fearful of a being with Zodiark's might being summoned. He thinks there's a chance he could bait Elidibus out if he forces a conflict. Knowing that its leader (Venat, who I'd make a former Altima, so highly respected) possesses a facet of the Echo that allows her to see glimpses of the future, he'd ask the alien for visions of worlds it's destroyed to flood her echo's aetheric frequencies with these thoughts, implanting these in some manner of device, perhaps the FF favourite of a crystal capable of holding and emanating them in a directed manner. He would then ask her to gaze into their people's future, and fill her mind with images of their world in ruin, resolving her to oppose Zodiark.
• The plan would work, drawing Zodiark's heart out, but the alien would stumble at this point - it would make an attempt to pierce Zodiark's defences but find that the sheer mass of ancient souls within him and their resolve to protect the world stood in its way.
• In line with the High Seraph's power to unfurl the threads of Creation, the being would bestow upon Fandaniel the means by which one could enervate, knowing that this would weaken Zodiark. Fandaniel then sought to convince Venat and her followers of the need to summon a primal to weaken and shackle Zodiark. She followed through, thinking this was necessary to salvage their people and after the Convocation and those still loyal to it. They too would consult another ancient possessing a similar power to peer into the future and find her testimony at odds with Venat's, so the two groups were at an impasse, leading to the eventual summoning of Hydaelyn.
• The ability to enervate would allow her to at least stand a chance against Zodiark, but still far more mighty, she realised she would need to use its full strength to sunder him if she was too succeed, a risky venture that could undo her in the process. What both she and Fandaniel as well as his master did not anticipate was the sheer scale of this; rather than destroying or undoing Zodiark, it would divide him and the entire star and leave him as an obstacle to the alien's plans. The temporary (but in practice, lengthy) loss of its agent in Fandaniel and blockage of the gate it was using would result in it having to bide its time.

Changes to ancient lore...:

Not much really. I was mostly happy with what we were shown in Elpis and in the Q&As. I'd maybe just make a few things more explicit:

• The one big change I'd make is to the sundered's origin. Yoshi offered an explanation that they evolved following the Sundering to compensate for the weakness it caused to their forms. Rather, I would have their bodies be the result of a project put in place by Athena in her pursuit of manipulating the soul. The Korean Q&A suggested the reason the Ascians would need to wipe the slate clean with the Final Rejoining was to do with the sundered bodies not reverting to ancient bodies.
  
  Essentially, Athena will have created facsimiles of Meteion but where she tried to approximate regular biological functions more accurately to ensure the star placed souls in it. To her annoyance, in the unsundered world, the cat and lizard girls and boys of eld etc. would not qualify for ancient souls, only animal ones, motivating her research. Several of these would be kept in facilities under her control around the star, and largely seen as a curiosity of her research, if not unsettling to many. The star would change its behaviour after the sundering and toss the spliced ancient souls into the bodies of these familiars, as well as either qualifying beast men creations, in addition to the now diminished bodies of the ancients. From this point onwards evolution and procreation would take care of the rest.
• I'd make it clearer that different cities exist with twists and points of difference on Amaurot’s culture but largely sharing the same ethos.
• I'd also make it clearer that the ancients overcame their darker impulses to forge the civilisation you see now and elaborate upon this a bit more.
• A clear implication would be left that there is much and more of the ancient world and its advanced nature we’ve not seen

Fast forwarding...:

• As mentioned, the Ascians would end up recruiting Hermes to the role of Fandaniel. Due to his new role, he would be approached eventually by Meteion, who would use her bond to him to rekindle his memories. Her master had conceived of a plan to remove Zodiark, but until Elidibus's departure, he would be unable to act on it. With 5.3, that opportunity would finally come. I'd have made him be Aulus, to better explain his understanding of Zenos's abilities and also the ability to extract the soul which comes up in EW.
• Fandaniel now acts on the plan, tricking Zenos into thinking he'll get his fight with the WoL and be able to draw on Zodiark to fuel it. Due to the small problem of the souls in Zodiark still blocking control over his will, Fandaniel has the idea of pouring Zodiark's power into a primal controlled by Zenos, Anima. The primal is formed on the base of one of the monstrosities from the alien's homeworld. Zenos is able to control it but the intention is it will be controlled by Fandaniel's master by the end. Plot mostly proceeds as it did, except Anima is fought as a trial. Fandaniel believes he will crush the WoL but surprisingly he does not. Nonetheless, a contingency plan is thought up by our intrepid sociopath. He has ensured that through his plan, hatched in SHB with the towers to drain and redirect aether, with Anima as the final stroke, he will weaken Hydaelyn sufficiently that in the absence of being able to take over Zodiark, his master via Meteion can instead use her once Venat is weakened enough. Slaying Anima accomplishes this and the WoL's blessing fades. Hydaelyn's state of weakness begins to rouse Zodiark into wakening. Fandaniel alludes to a divine vengeance from the stars coming their way.
• Fandaniel hasn't got the time to disable or sabotage the moon portal device in the tower, and is forced to flee. The WoL uses this to head to the moon, and can hear the cries of the no longer dormant ancient souls in Zodiark as he nears him. He is eventually confronted by members of the Convocation lurking there, Altima, Pashtarot and Deudalaphon. The WoL fears they will fight him if they sense the Blessing is gone, but they observed events and are aware of Fandaniel's plan to siphon Zodiark's power, but not why. They're unable to offer further information but Deudalaphon, made aware of Fandaniel's ramblings, having worked in Elpis, is aware that it's where the ancients' space observatories and remarks it's a shame that naught remains of it. Through discussion with the Scions it is decided to approach the trapped Elidibus and see if he can be of any aid. Elpis sequence happens revealing ancient backstory above. Venat is horrified when she hears how things turned out, but when the group confront Hermes she is not spared of the memory wipe. He still uses it on himself to conceal his own guilt. Venat's actions are undertaken on a "this is what is necessary to salvage the situation" basis. She will suffer some similar loss of identity and memory as Elidibus owing to serving as the heart for so long.

The Final Showdown:

• Having enabled Meteion to gain control over Hydaelyn, Fandaniel will fuse her with Zodiark in the hopes that this fusion will allow her power to overwhelm the souls in Zodiark, so that he can install in him a new heart. This act of fusion of dark and light will also sufficiently weaken the barriers blocking the way for its master, and the towers will combine with the Underworld facility to slowly begin the march of the new Final Days, which when in full swing, as with EW, will be capable of fully unmaking the sundered. To this end, Hermes has ferried the souls of Emet-Selch and Lahabrea (memories wiped due to being pushed into the cycle of rebirth, which Hermes will gloat about) from the Lifestream, intending to use their bond to Zodiark to bend their will in forging a new heart using his master's freaky powers. He is angered that the ancients rejected the gift of a 'god' he had brought them. The other two Convocation members will also be trapped and reserved to that end. What Fandaniel will have failed to account for is that Elidibus was not totally destroyed in the Crystal Tower. Gaia and Ryne will also have accompanied you out of eagerness to meet the primals that played such a decisive role over their lives.
• Elidibus will resume his role as heart of the primal, re-enter him, and in so doing bestow his blessing upon you. The trial will consist of two phases, one being to free Venat and oust Meteion controlling Hydaelyn, who will try force her way into the Zodiark half of the primal, only to be met with the combined might of the souls in Zodiark who will come to your aid and force her out. This will also begin to weaken the zeal she herself succumbed to in the process of serving as the primal's heart for those many thousands of years, with memories flooding back. Defeated at this juncture, Meteion will grab hold of Hermes, and they will flee deep within the Aetherial Sea, to where it all started. Her hope will be to lure the hearts of the two primals there.
• Vrtra will be informed of events and he too will want to tag along as he begins to suspect that the fall of his own world may have been linked to the being that's now revealed itself via Meteion. Measures will be taken to dismantle some of the towers and buy time for Meteion to be dealt with but the clock will be ticking. Generally, I'd like to see more of the horror from outer space vibe with the towers.
• Descent into the Underworld. Here, Meteion will attempt to reopen the gate to summon her master in its fullness through. With Zodiark and Hydaelyn weakened due to the altercation, she will succeed in sufficiently opening it so that a part of its consciousness is able to enter through and recombine with her. The group will arrive, composed of the Scions, the primals' hearts, Emet-Selch, Lahabrea (memory restored via his Convocation crystal), Deudalaphon, Altima, Pashtarot and Vrtra, and the final confrontation with the alien empowered Meteion will take place. She will hijack Hermes's body, though her master's act of consuming Hermes's soul will break his bond with her, and it will discard her body to the side, battling the assembled group. Both primals will give the last of their remaining strength to help bring the alien low, releasing the souls in Zodiark into the lifestream, flooding over the monstrosity and ending it. Eventually defeated, the gate will shut and the last traces of the alien and its bond to the world will shatter. It will be left unclear if it was fully defeated or if it's simply been locked away. The inference will remain that there are many worlds that remain untouched by its presence that still exist to one day be discovered in the wider universe.
• It will be revealed Venat, her mind restored to its original state, in her primal form, had thought it necessary to make use of a form of light tempering on WoL and other servants, which she will be apologetic about. The ancients initially begin arguing with each other, the remaining Convocation with Venat (as she apologises for what she did and how she tried to erase memory of their kind), and Elidibus with Emet over his betrayal in SoS.
  
  However, Elidibus realises this is not the time after a flashback to the division in the ancient world, and instead moves towards... reconciliation, capitalising on the fact that they were all misled and are now all here together, having delivered unto their star, salvation. Exhausted and having done their part, Venat, Emet and Hyth choose to pass into the Lifestream. It is implied with Hydaelyn’s primal gone barriers between worlds will fade and in time, in millennia, source will naturally rejoin to its full glory, a revelation which leaves the Scions with mixed feelings. The remaining two Ascians will see it as pointless to pursue their goals given the passing of Zodiark, but Altima will wish to help document the history of the ancients before she passes, and Deudalaphon promises to help explore one remaining thread Emet touched upon before departing (more below.)
• Garlemald’s future trajectory is made clearer, with the remaining friendly provinces sending envoys to help capitol rebuild and secure itself, while transitional government arrangements put in place to help manage relations with provinces. Nerva will have managed to escape to one of the provinces rather than dying. It will be revealed he genuinely cared about his people and will work to prove to transitional government he is worthy of being named emperor, which will become like Archades’s, an elective seat with some oversight of senate. This would mostly play out in post-MSQ patches.
• Overall, the impact of the Final Days will have been wider spread and heavier.

The aftermath stuff...:

• Aside from the stuff pertaining to Garlemald...
  
• Remaining Scions will disband and gradual introduction of new cast with some remaining or making cameos.
• Regarding Athena, she will have been a research fellow of Fandaniel’s whom he corrupted, leading to her acting on her darker desires. She instead believed alien could be harnessed to turn their people into gods, promising a solution to her earlier research that led to nowhere, and thus gain power over the soul itself. Azem’s backstory is touched upon in that he believed the true cause of the Final Days was housed in Pandaemonium, not that he opposed the scale of sacrifices, and thought this would be a better way forward – he was sundered in the process.
• The raid story still in Pandaemonium, but in the pocket dimension version, where Elidibus and Laha’s ghosts accompany you as they realise it could be trickier to simply seal it off in the present day, without first getting to the bottom of what happened there. Corrupted souls of wardens and Athena herself remain, and you move to free them to join the Aetherial Sea. The first warden will be Eric, as before, leading Lahabrea to realise the scale of Athena's depravity by that point. The wife, father, son dynamic can be kept in place and use of echo flashbacks made to reveal aspects of each ancient in the past.
  
  The raid would incorporate a mock Zodiark fight to give a taste of the prototype primal's power. Elidibus retains part of his crystal, chuckling as you part ways, promising to dispose of it. In reality, he is going to complete his hero’s arc and use the last of it to use the CT for a final act of time travel, to right the wrongs of ancient times, opening up an AU that is left implied in the storyline. This will function much like the one G'raha opened, an understanding which will factor into Elidibus's decision.
• Myths will shift quite a bit. The Twelve will instead be early attempts by Convocation to work with sundered mankind. They will be the result of ancient studies into theology and primals, similar to what led to Zodiark and Hydaelyn, teaching the sundered to assume their forms in the hopes that they could lead their fellow man by example, but instead they’d witness the baser instincts of the sundered, or their inability to stay uncorrupted by the weight of this power, leading to them growing corrupted and mad with power, resulting in them being sealed away. Emet would clue you into this before fading.
  
  Deudalaphon, whose idea the project was, commits to accompanying before taking his rest. He will reveal that the elder primals, while they share some traits with regular ones, are the product of ancient research into the very divine essence immanent in all creation (the elementals and beings like the Four Lords embodying this on a minor scale), but with particular application to the more fundamental forces of light and dark, as the ancients delved deeper into the more esoteric facets of this field, in turn enabling the genesis of the two elder primals. He will suggest that Meteion, having been conceived initially as a vessel with which such divine will might make contact, could be suited to take the place of Hydaelyn and Zodiark as will of the star, their own bond to it having weakened due to it having due to the Sundering and conflict between the two, and thus act as its voice. Rather than being pure light or dark, she will be capable of shifting between the two. The Blessing as a form of empowerment would fade as her focus shifts to watching over the star. I'm borrowing a bit here from Aveyond's rewrite idea (at least I think it was), just because I really liked the idea, especially with her seeing it as her duty to help rebuild a world that in her corrupted form she nearly broke and to have some remaining aspect of the divine in the world beyond your run of the mill primals. Additionally by bearing a dark aspect she can call upon it could be used to shield the world in the event of a repeat of the Final Days.
  

Why I like this over what we got:

• I feel it incorporates some lore aspects that were neglected along the EW rollercoaster ride, or which went off the rails completely.
• More respectful of the ancients, and builds on the theme of them and the sundered coming together to shield the star.
• Dynamis is simply an alien energy, capable of influencing emotional states - remains weaker than and oppositional to aether.
• Sundered emerge with a deeper understanding of what the ancients went through and the weight of the dilemma which gripped them.
• Less damage to the game's future world-building by not wiping out entire alien worlds and introducing threats implied to be galactic in nature but which sit there flailing for 40% of the fight.
• Gradual shift to a new cast.
• It helps rehabilitate Venat's character for me as someone who genuinely did try her best for the sake of her people and the sundered after things went awry, and avoids trying to justify the sundering through demonising the ancients.
• Leaves a future story I'd be interested in seeing them flesh out.