Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[Hurlstone]

That is the only aspect that i don't like about the MSQ. We "solve" every political problem with democracy and equality. Ul'dah, Ala Mhigo and Ishgard. Shame.

As VelKallor above said, thats a rather toned down viewpoint on battles that cost hundreds of lives and great upheavel that is/will take decades to settle and change. Even so, I actually like that thats how we change things. I honest disagree with the idea that the themes of the game are ‘childish’ or weak in anyway just because it actual empathises the idea of hopeful change and better ways to live/rule.

With Ul'dah though I do hate how thats been swept up under the carpet. ARR shows it as this melting pot on the fringe of collapse, in need of real change, but Heavensward just decided to wrap it up with like one quest, and further attempts felt very weak and akin to “Oh Nanamo you where silly to think a Republic would be a good idea. Look, you say things are getting better now in EW because… we said so? Yeah. Oh ware a mask when meeting Lolorito, thats enough to wrap that arc right?” I honestly would have loved it if Ul’dah had been burnt to the ground and the guillotines brought out (eyes Lolorito) and got a chance to inact actual change, but alas…

[Nav_Fae]

As VelKallor above said, thats a rather toned down viewpoint on battles that cost hundreds of lives and great upheavel that is/will take decades to settle and change. Even so, I actually like that thats how we change things. I honest disagree with the idea that the themes of the game are ‘childish’ or weak in anyway just because it actual empathises the idea of hopeful change and better ways to live/rule.

With Ul'dah though I do hate how thats been swept up under the carpet. ARR shows it as this melting pot on the fringe of collapse, in need of real change, but Heavensward just decided to wrap it up with like one quest, and further attempts felt very weak and akin to “Oh Nanamo you where silly to think a Republic would be a good idea. Look, you say things are getting better now in EW because… we said so? Yeah. Oh ware a mask when meeting Lolorito, thats enough to wrap that arc right?” I honestly would have loved it if Ul’dah had been burnt to the ground and the guillotines brought out (eyes Lolorito) and got a chance to inact actual change, but alas…

It's kind of funny when you really think about it, this game heavily pushes the idea/concepts that there is only one way to lead a successful city state and everything else outside that is wrong.

[PEANUT]

Exactly. Once or twice is fine but they've been doing this for six years now and it's really getting stale. There's really only so many times they can use the existentialist/defying fate trope before it completely loses its power.

There is also beauty in consistency. These characters have been around since 1.0 days, they're not gonna just drastically change, they have developed their personalities and characteristics to become who they are all these years as we've watched their progression. If Y'shtola suddenly became lazy or an a**hole a character that wouldn't make sense right? So their belief in friendship and lending a hand and never giving up is gonna play into how they react to the events of the story, so yes, all of these expansions are going to include things that challenge those characteristics, such as existential crises, defying fate, etc...

[PEANUT]

Also... people like you are in the minority for sure. You're basically asking CBU3 to change their formula that's been working successfully for them because you're annoyed. A lot of people play and support this game, why? Because they are overall enjoying it... simple as that, they are enjoying the story, gameplay, etc. There are thousands of players that don't even check/know about these forums that pay and support the game... sooo posts like these borderline demanding CBU3 what to do aren't really gonna work and it's just you complaining at the end of the day looking for any shred of someone who agrees with you, which again is not a lot....

[BRVV]

There is also beauty in consistency. These characters have been around since 1.0 days, they're not gonna just drastically change, they have developed their personalities and characteristics to become who they are all these years as we've watched their progression. If Y'shtola suddenly became lazy or an a**hole a character that wouldn't make sense right? So their belief in friendship and lending a hand and never giving up is gonna play into how they react to the events of the story, so yes, all of these expansions are going to include things that challenge those characteristics, such as existential crises, defying fate, etc...

They all have been little "lets-save-the-world" "personalities". None of them are 3 dimensional. That's not a good thing. They also impose their view on anyone and it's framed as us all saving them. It's the garlean's fault!

A lot of people play and support this game, why? Because they are overall enjoying it...

So many are already gone now that streamers moved on. So many people in general (today) just want to be part of the hype. I wonder how successfull 7.0 will be if streamers don't push it.

[fulminating]

If Y'shtola suddenly became lazy or an a**hole a character that wouldn't make sense right? .

Y'shtola's character is now essentially "cat in a humanoid body", either or both would be entirely in keeping.

To answer the broader point, why should I remain invested when the same thing that worked last expansion and the one before is also being used this expansion to the same effect? There's only so many times the same story can be told in different settings before it wears thin or outstays its welcome. We are already at this point, and it's not like stuffing an entire calamity into a potato wasn't straining credulity to begin with. This isn't portal after all.
Personally I think the tone and characterisation of ARR and HW hit a pretty good spot that hasn't really been matched since. I don't think either was perfect by any stretch, but the characters weren't all an amorphous, interchangeable mass all parroting the same answer in unison, like a particularly echoey reddit.

[PEANUT]

They all have been little "lets-save-the-world" "personalities". None of them are 3 dimensional. That's not a good thing. They also impose their view on anyone and it's framed as us all saving them. It's the garlean's fault!



So many are already gone now that streamers moved on. So many people in general (today) just want to be part of the hype. I wonder how successfull 7.0 will be if streamers don't push it.

So what would make them 3 dimensional then? They don't "impose" their view on "anyone". Creating a mutual trade agreement with what's left of Garlemald literally explaining that they want to pursue this route so that Garlemald can still retain their independence is not "imposing" on anyone. Even from back in 1.0 the Scions would receive missives for help/aid.

[Theodric]

I don't think it's ever been particularly difficult to create characters that differ from one another and who appeal to a broader range of personal tastes. It's something that many players have been asking for over the years that the feedback gathered seems to come exclusively from the same platforms where there's often only mindless fawning over the current cast. We've also seen the likes of Estinien devolve from being the stoic and 'hard hitting truth speaker' to eye candy and comic relief, based almost entirely on the head-canon formed around him on Twitter.

Especially now that we know that the 'Gods' in the setting aren't actually real and really are just artificial creation, this would be the perfect opportunity to have a meaningful split in how the major characters - and nations - see the situation. Some could double down on continuing their current form of worship whereas others could pull away and declare that they see no reason to continue doing so.

It'd reflect how the real world works, where one can find themselves in a circle of friends where some individuals hold religious beliefs and others do not.

We can apply this to many different forms of thinking and belief systems. An excellent way to bring about true diversity within the cast instead of surface level diversity/pandering. Yet when push comes to shove, the game always conveniently shies away from any meaningful ideological differences despite the fact that if you leave the social media bubble and actually step into the real world, you can quite easily encounter people with vastly differing perspectives and experiences getting along fairly well.

In the long term, I think it was a mistake to make the world itself so tied to the player character. I often get the impression that due to the amount of players self inserting or at least getting highly attached to their character, then there's a reluctance to have any meaningful push back towards anything the player character or their core allies ends up doing.

As someone more invested in the world building and various nations over specific characters it is my belief that there's a lot of squandered potential.

[BRVV]

So what would make them 3 dimensional then? They don't "impose" their view on "anyone". Creating a mutual trade agreement with what's left of Garlemald literally explaining that they want to pursue this route so that Garlemald can still retain their independence is not "imposing" on anyone. Even from back in 1.0 the Scions would receive missives for help/aid.

Physical appearance, social behaviour and psychology should not be immediately guessed by one of them. Easy. For one they could give them goals, desires, motivation. Maybe even fears! Even disagreement among them. One can dream.

Tell that to dead Garleans or better yet: to everyone dead because we just had to decide that we keep this timeline intact despite all the horrible events of the past.

We are now basically a shadow government. Getting favours from everywhere. No democracy. Just us asking for something and getting it. The ultimate fantasy for entitled people.

[Vyrerus]

Also... people like you are in the minority for sure. You're basically asking CBU3 to change their formula that's been working successfully for them because you're annoyed. A lot of people play and support this game, why? Because they are overall enjoying it... simple as that, they are enjoying the story, gameplay, etc. There are thousands of players that don't even check/know about these forums that pay and support the game... sooo posts like these borderline demanding CBU3 what to do aren't really gonna work and it's just you complaining at the end of the day looking for any shred of someone who agrees with you, which again is not a lot....

Argumentum ad populum or whatever. Just because a lot of people like something or buy something, doesn't mean it's good. Just because a lot of people view a character certain way, doesn't mean that's who the character is, etc.

After all, there's billions of people who are under educated, and are dumb. Should they go on being that way, just because it serves business interests?

Also fwiw, Y'shtola is a bitchy sassy catgirl, who has totally been an asshole to NPCs outside of the Scions, like that time she gave Merlwyb a verbal beatdown over how Merlwyb runs Limsa Lominsa, in spite of having had 0 leadership responsibilities ever in her life, let alone national level leadership.