Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[Theodric]

Then I'd love to know what, exactly, this mysterious 'echo chamber' covers. It certainly seems as if specific posters are simply treating any criticism towards the game whatsoever as entirely irrelevant or simply lumping everybody who happens to share any agreement on any issue as all being part of the same hivemind which in itself is rather unnerving.

[VelKallor]

Then I'd love to know what, exactly, this mysterious 'echo chamber' covers. It certainly seems as if specific posters are simply treating any criticism towards the game whatsoever as entirely irrelevant or simply lumping everybody who happens to share any agreement on any issue as all being part of the same hivemind which in itself is rather unnerving.

My dear Theodric, i was called a liar for saying that CBU3 is part of Square Enix and not a separate company. More than 20 people AGREED with that little statement. You will then forgive me if I take anything said here with a grain of salt the size of Mt Everest.

The thread in question accused CBU3 of "ripping off" FF intellectual property. That "hivemind" you say doesnt exist has a very strange disconnection with reality.

Lemme see here, liar, paid shill, undercover SE mole, undercover SE employee, undercover SE intern....want me to go on? I also imagine that anyone who suffers the kind of delusions needs to get help for what Id call incipient paranoia.

So.

Spare me, will you?

[Theodric]

I've been posting on and off around these parts for almost a decade. I've been called many things in that time, far worse things than a 'liar' at that. I can't say I pay much attention to whether a post gets likes or not and I certainly wouldn't discredit the forum as a whole on the basis of a few scuffles with other posters.

I've also met many interesting people over the years that I've posted here. It really isn't the echo chamber some like to paint it is and if one can't find a way to agree to disagree with specific posters then the ignore function exists for a reason.

[kpxmanifesto]

Even if you take issue with specific posters, there's many enthusiasts of the game's ongoing story who have spoken out in response to Endwalker's outright retcons and often bizarre/hypocritical messaging. So to pretend as if it's solely coming from 'malcontents' is rather disingenuous.

Yep, that reminds me of this thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/478913 (Inconsistencies with the sundering (Spoilers)).

Plenty of people other than myself and the OP joined in to discuss how EW's story was taken in an odd direction at certain points of the MSQ.

Edit: It also reminds me of the time when Yoshi P really struggled to answer EW lore related questions at the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LXVIII. It was kinda hard for the guy to give solid answers with specific details when the story was so plot-hole ridden.

[AwesomeJr44]

I've been posting on and off around these parts for almost a decade. I've been called many things in that time, far worse things than a 'liar' at that.

Same, I wish that a liar was the worse thing I've ever been called lol

[IkaraGreydancer]

They can, they just can't only do that.



They can, they just can't only do that, especially when the theme of the expansion is overcoming despair.



Having a philosophical message doesn't necessarily mean you're preaching, it's all about how you deliver your message.



They can, they just can't only do that.



They can, but the problems being fixed shouldn't always have a very easy solution, and when every supporting character is 'knowledgeable', it creates a lack of difference between them.



The choices provided don't have any impact, and they are mysteriously absent when certain topics are the current focus of the story.



They can, but if you're going to touch on a touchy topic like those, you need to do so with care and respect, which Endwalker didn't.



You can have this reduce the notion of possible 'petty beef' but when the scions agree on every major issue, it's boring.



You can have this to an extent, but when it's too useful as a solution to problems, it's a boring solution.



You can rebuild a nation without ideologically assimilating its people.



Endwalker is the expansion with the least nuance.



It doesn't sound like you know what people are asking for. Maybe start listening to what people are saying instead of what you think they're saying, and perhaps you will.

They don't only do that. You're lying if you think they are.

Most of EW hasn't been spent having a good time. Idc what you think there. That is the fact of the matter.

It's about how it delivered, yet who is to say they delivered it wrong simply because YOU feel it was preachy. It's your opinion. Simple as that.

You also can't say a franchise can't only do something It's done for over a decade. Again it's a STAPLE of the franchise.

Next most solutions don't come easy and again you are lying if you say they are. Much of what is done requires loads of work n knowledge from multiple parties.

You find them boring that they agree. Skip cutscenes if it bothers you so much. I'd expect disagreement from new people. Not established like minded folks.

You say their methods are to useful therefore boring so what would you suggest? Should we have left Garl to just fizzle out n die? Should we nt have touched Doma/Ala Mhigo? What other courses of action would be better since the current ones (even when used differently) are boring?
Also tell me this? Was Garl ideologically assimilated? They still seems like a pretty prideful people. In fact which people do fit that bill exactly? Also expac with the least nuance? You either skipped scenes, didn't understand or are just lying. There was no real good or evil in EW. Not even Endsinger. At the very least I could say SB had far less nuance.

It funny you say I should listen to what folks are asking for yet I literally just listed many of the common things out. You yourself can't even accurately communicate what you want so you have no place to tell me this. Again much of what folks want is already present. It's just not done to a T how you like. Nothing else to say past that. Agree to disagree



Oh for others do remember you being insulted won't mean much cause folks will 1 up it saying they've been called worse attempting to make it not seem as bad. I can bring up folks brigading against me n calling to get me banned n that won't mean anything.

[Theodric]

I remember saying as much the last time it was insinuated but there's really no need for people to post 'in my opinion' before their every statement. It should be intuitively obvious that everybody here is posting their personal opinions.

[AwesomeJr44]

I remember saying as much the last time it was insinuated but there's really no need for people to post 'in my opinion' before their every statement. It should be intuitively obvious that everybody here is posting their personal opinions.

This should be incredibly obvious.

You yourself can't even accurately communicate what you want so you have no place to tell me this.

We have, but you haven't been listening if your clear lack of understanding of what people have been asking for is anything to go off of. If we say "we want x" and you respond with "so you want y", that means you weren't listening.

Oh for others do remember you being insulted won't mean much cause folks will 1 up it saying they've been called worse attempting to make it not seem as bad.

If the worst thing you've ever been called is a liar, particularly if you have been caught in several lies (like the person who was complaining about it was), or a white knight, particularly if you've made it clear that you are one, (like the person who was complaining about it has) then relatively, it really isn't that bad.

It's about how it delivered, yet who is to say they delivered it wrong simply because YOU feel it was preachy. It's your opinion.

Endwalker was preachy. The opinion part of it is whether or not you care. Some people have a higher tolerance for preaching. I don't.

You also can't say a franchise can't only do something It's done for over a decade. Again it's a STAPLE of the franchise.

Other FF games don't only do that. That 'only' is a key word.

You say their methods are to useful therefore boring so what would you suggest?

Write the story differently. It's a writing problem.

Was Garl ideologically assimilated? They still seems like a pretty prideful people.

All of the Garleans who have any sense of national pride left are treated by the narrative as if that's a bad thing. They will be slowly be assimilated into the Eorzean amoeba once they learn the moral of the patch.

Also expac with the least nuance? You either skipped scenes, didn't understand or are just lying. There was no real good or evil in EW. Not even Endsinger. At the very least I could say SB had far less nuance.

There's the age old "you just skipped cutscenes or didn't understand the DEEP themes!!!" excuse again. Gotta love that one. Regardless, if there's no real good or evil in EW, why does the story bend over backwards to paint someone who committed genocide as a 'herois'?

[VelKallor]

There's the age old "you just skipped cutscenes or didn't understand the DEEP themes!!!" excuse again. Gotta love that one. Regardless, if there's no real good or evil in EW, why does the story bend over backwards to paint someone who committed genocide as a 'herois'?

No one said this.

Venat was faced with an impossible decision. She COULD NOT tell them of Elpis, could not tell them what she already knew about the earthshattering blunder Hermes had made. Could not tell them that they, the Ancients and their overweening arrogance, had laid the seed of their own destruction. Could not tell Emet-Selch about the gaping hole in his memory thanks to Kairos. The timeline had to remain.

From a youtube video commentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwTcMt6k8FQ

The meaning behind Venats decision is so beautiful and logical, yet cruel and unforgiving. She sundered the star, mankind and all of creation knowing that in their imperfection, determined life span and receptiveness to dynamis we would inevitable seek the answer of hermes question. She further stresses to seek the answer by calling to us "Hear, Feel, Think" like a mantra, which is exactly what we need to be able to understand dynamis and face Meteion. Especially, since Meteion, a being communicating using dynamis, tries to understand us using the same terms:

Meteion: "I wish to hear your words... Share your feelings... Know your thoughts."

tl;dr: Venat dooms mankind to suffer. Because in suffering we would seek meaning in our lives. Therefore finding the answer Hermes and Meteion so eagerly sought.

She had to make a decision no one should have had to make, she had little recourse BUT to sunder the worlds. They had forestalled the Final Days for a time..but she knew that day would come.

There WAS no perfect solution, no perfect answer..she did what she HAD to.

In the same vein as the Kobiyashi Maru, no matter what she did, they would LOSE. Meteion was still out there, the Final Days would come again. There was no choice, no alternative. Often there never is...a lesson that I had to personally relearn a long time ago.

In her own words:

" No more shall man have wings to bear him to Paradise..henceforth, he shall WALK."

"As fragmented, imperfect beings, yours is a never-ending quest.
A quest to find your purpose, knowing your end is assured.
To find the strength to continue, when all strength has left you.
To find joy, even as darkness descends...
...and amidst deepest despair, light everlasting."

[AwesomeJr44]

No one said this.

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Wind-up_Herois