Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[VelKallor]

You say this, and yet you have the hubris to assume that you do.

Never said I did. Ever. Said this forum is a minority. It is. Deal with it.

In your absolute failure of a metaphor that you keep insisting on pushing, you're a Karen that yells at people in an attempt to try and suppress opinions that you don't agree with because you find their very utterance offensive.

Never said or implied anything of the kind. Never tried to "suppress" anyone either. But you keep making stuff up, keep fabricating issues that dont exist and never have.

You pretend that some invisible majority agrees with you

Never said this at any time. I said in fact that I dont know what everyone wants. I dont. You dont. No one does.

because you know that your rants could never stand on their own legs as logical arguments. Odd that you would feel the need to do so in such an angry and defensive manner if such opinions were coming from mere 'malcontents'.

I will admit I find you..vexing, especially when you are either unable or incapable of accurately depicting what someone actually said vs what you want to believe.

Kindly cease and desist.

Since I can accurately take that as your attempt to suppress what I want to say?

How about...no.

[AwesomeJr44]

I can prove you completely wrong with one quote from here (Post #92, linked below) and a link to another thread. Watch.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...phizing/page10

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You say this, and yet you have the hubris to assume that you do.

Actually what we have here, Theodric, is a busy , bustling happy restaurant with loads of happy customers ignoring a tiny band of bitter malcontents standing outside, jum ping up and down telling them how bad the food is and not to eat it because it doesnt suit THEIR tastes or personal likes.

You saying that the people that agree with you are 'loads of happy customers' compared to the 'tiny band of malcontents'.

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you're a Karen that yells at people in an attempt to try and suppress opinions that you don't agree with because you find their very utterance offensive.

Actually what we have here, Theodric, is a busy , bustling happy restaurant with loads of happy customers ignoring a tiny band of bitter malcontents standing outside, jum ping up and down telling them how bad the food is and not to eat it because it doesnt suit THEIR tastes or personal likes.

Labeling those you disagree with as a 'tiny band of malcontents' that are unreasonable and thus shouldn't be listened to.

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You pretend that some invisible majority agrees with you

Actually what we have here, Theodric, is a busy , bustling happy restaurant with loads of happy customers ignoring a tiny band of bitter malcontents standing outside, jum ping up and down telling them how bad the food is and not to eat it because it doesnt suit THEIR tastes or personal likes.

You saying that the people that agree with you are 'loads of happy customers' compared to the 'tiny band of malcontents'. (This is the same as #1)

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especially when you are either unable or incapable of accurately depicting what someone actually said vs what you want to believe.

For every time you have claimed this, I have provided concrete indisputable evidence to show that you said the things I claim you do. So far, you have been caught in several lies. Not misunderstandings, not things that weren't worded properly, straight out contradictions that cannot both be true when put side by side. Not only that, but you have doubled down on every occasion, which rules out a change in mindset. The most recent example being page #833 in the Lackluster thread where you contradicted yourself from only a little over a week prior.

Here's a link for everyone: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...walker/page833

Like I said there, I don't have the memory of a goldfish.

[Naraku_Diabolos]

I wholeheartedly agree with you. The entire 6.0 EW MSQ and the whole concepts of Dynamis and "The universe and its world have fallen into depression and that's why they're all dead" is quite boring to me. Perhaps one of the most boring cosmic-themed concepts I have seen so far in the history of gaming. Do you really want to convince me that the vast expanse of the universe, with hundreds, thousands, or even millions of civilizations got wiped out because of depression and despair? That they share the same understanding of emotions as the rest? That no one managed to stand against it other than a group of 16-30 years old scholars who took it down via the power of friendship? I'm not trying to shame people who like this sort of philosophy, but I'd prefer actions, actual mysteries, plot twists, and grey morality where neither side's actions are justified just like ARR/HW story writing over emotions and friendship.

Civilizations on Earth come and go. Look what has happened to the Mayans, Inca, and Aztec civilizations and empires. Those South American cultures were all about the cycle of life and death, and even sacrificed people out of appeasement to their gods. They were at their peak of power hundreds years ago and they all vanished. Civilizations can die on a whim. Even ancient Egyptians ceased, yet they embraced death as a new chapter in life. Death is a much talked about theme and no one wants to die. People can find the sadness and despair in life when all hope seems loss. Lots of people do not want to die but it eventually happens to everyone and everything. You may not like it, but everything you do in life will not matter decades or centuries later to future people unless you make a drastic change in life can be historical. Hell, I’d love to know who my Celtic ancestors were and what they did (my bloodline is near 100% European Celtic) in their lives, but I will never know what their accomplishments were until I die.

[TheDecay]

None of it is predictable. People will be given a foreshadow of something two levels before an event or four quests before it. Then reply with, I knew it! Saw this coming! Even though the foreshadow was only made predictable literally 4 quests ago.

Keep defeating the imaginary strawman that no one put forth as an argument.

[Striker44]

snip

No, what you've provided is misinterpretations at best and intentional dishonesty at worst. Vel's analogy of the restaurant makes sense, given that hundreds of thousands of people are actively logging into the game, playing, and enjoying themselves every day (itself verifiable by reading chat, listening in on Discords, etc.), versus the couple dozen or so people on this forum constantly complaining about everything and attacking anyone who dares to say they enjoy the game or refute the attempts at points being made. In the meantime, you specifically ignore every single thing Vel says that explicitly refutes your claims, and then try to cherry-pick one thing, completely ignore the context or reality behind it, and then go on a paragraphs-long rant about it. That's troubling.

[Theodric]

I think whenever people need to insist that they're the majority and that any criticism is just coming from 'haters' then it's a surefire sign that they're actually not all that confident that a particular product can actually stand on its own two feet without deceptive attempts to pretend as if absolutely any feedback whatsoever that is negative has no weight or merit to it.

There's many aspects of the game that are worthy of criticism and to pretend otherwise is, as far as I'm concerned, rather disingenuous. Especially when this forum's primary purpose is to serve as a venue for feedback to be posted. Whether anyone working for the company reads it is another matter entirely though it's where people are directed to when urged to leave feedback.

[Lauront]

I see it's whittled down from "millions" to "hundreds of thousands" over time. Fact is, striker has no true data he can access to determine the "majority's" opinion on the story, or any other gameplay aspect. The reality is consumers will consume a product for as long as it provides them with some satisfaction/feel it is worth their money but that's a far cry from saying they have no criticism of it or that the product itself is perfect. People like striker treat this as some 0/1 happy/unhappy binary, where it's actually a sliding scale where the score can dip below what's good enough to justify a sub fee or just stay high enough to justify it. That isn't to say there's not a chunk of people thrilled with this game, just that it's not nearly as clear-cut as such folk make it out to be. Reducing disagreement to a few dozens on the forum, as if they might not reflect the same concerns of players in game, is an exercise in dishonesty to which striker has given his all. We just know there's some patterns of criticism that arise on quite a few platforms and that there is a relatively high churn that statistics like LB show. If we want to play the usual "majority" games, how many people who have ever played this game still play it? In that light, who is the "minority"?

It's banal and pointless to even try discuss it using such framing, as if it matters to these discussions to anyone but SE, which is also the only party here that can truly determine this and the significance of it to whether they heed certain feedback or not.

[SquirrelDerp]

I think whenever people need to insist that they're the majority and that any criticism is just coming from 'haters' then it's a surefire sign that they're actually not all that confident that a particular product can actually stand on its own two feet without deceptive attempts to pretend as if absolutely any feedback whatsoever that is negative has no weight or merit to it.

To be fair here, anyone at all who thinks they're a majority of the fanbase, while on a forum, greatly overestimates how many people care one way or the other.

Especially if they reference how others on the forums feel.

It's like how on mmo-c and bnet back in 2009 tons of folks on the forums were convinced that BC and Wotlk ruined wow and that the game was going to die any day now because they added 10 man raids, and would start every argument with "EVERYONE AGREES!". And as much as you can say bad things about wow, wotlk did not kill it in 2010.

Most people who are content with the game don't come to forums, so you get an incredibly skewed perspective.

[Lauront]

Most people who unsubscribe/stop playing the game also do so silently and may not even do SE the courtesy of telling them why, much as they might ask "why did you stop paying us".

Yoshi at least is/was acutely aware of this dynamic:



So really this argument about forum non-participation cuts in both directions.

[SquirrelDerp]

I wasn't meaning to imply one way or the other, just that forum participation isn't really indicative of what folks, in general, fell about the game.

I should have said "The most passionate players are the ones on the forums" instead, was my bad.