Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[iVolke]

Is this ragebait? LOL
That's not a valid feedback. You can't just demand a game developer what they should and should not go creative-wise. It's their story to tell.

So players aren't allowed to critic the story? That's a weird take.

"You can't tell Disney you thought Palpatine coming back was a bad idea, it's their story to tell!"

[Zebraoracle]

Some people in this thread: I don't like this thing and this is why
Some people in this thread: I don't agree with that
A few people in this thread: You're wrong blah blah blah blah gonna use metaphor about you that can easily be turned around on myself

It's all so wearying...

The funniest/saddest part is this thread just proves the "mads" right about their claim that they're constantly being told "if you don't like it go play something else".

Also, I don't know what the big deal is about someone saying they think the story could be better if done in a different way.

[IkaraGreydancer]

You say this, and yet you have the hubris to assume that you do. In your absolute failure of a metaphor that you keep insisting on pushing, you're a Karen that yells at people in an attempt to try and suppress opinions that you don't agree with because you find their very utterance offensive. You pretend that some invisible majority agrees with you because you know that your rants could never stand on their own legs as logical arguments. Odd that you would feel the need to do so in such an angry and defensive manner if such opinions were coming from mere 'malcontents'.

Kindly cease and desist.



This is so accurate that it's sad.

Predictable? Who here by a show of hands predicted Zodiark would be our first trial? Maybe Hyd being our 2nd. Who here predicted Endsinger would even be a thing or that msq would revolve heavily around themes of nihilism?Who predicted that Zenos would become Shinryu once again and travel the stars to aid us? Who predicted Fandaniel was Amon? Who predicated we'd have a friendly battle with Venat? Hell who predicted Elpis? Like I could ask a hundred of these.

To sit and act Ike everything is oh so predictable is so weird to me. What do you expect us to just start wiping people out who don't agree with us or something? We've always sided more on diplomacy and it'd be jarring if that started to no longer be the case. I'd much rather have consistent characters rather than ones that flip flop at the drop of a hat. BUT thats also why I welcome new ones. I'm at a point where I feel many of yall just want/need a new game

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

Buddy you are shifting the target topic somewhere else, we are not talking about how predictable the story is, we are talking about how predictable and preachy the characters are within the story.

Besides the moment Zodiark was revealed to be the first Trial boss then many obvious cards were on the table.

If they planned for the trials to be against super god like primals then the next one would obviously be Momma and since they followed a 3 trials in base expansion formula and the two top powerful beings are down then the next would be a Necron scenario which it was.

[AwesomeJr44]

Predictable?

You're probably better off quoting TheDecay seeing as none of the things you brought up outside of your last paragraph have anything to do with the section I was quoting from him. That being said, most of the examples you gave were either predictable or irrelevant to the plot or characters. The Elpis one is really the only one that wasn't.

What do you expect us to just start wiping people out who don't agree with us or something? We've always sided more on diplomacy and it'd be jarring if that started to no longer be the case.

No, I think some of us just want some of the people we meet to not become our friends just because we asked nicely, and who can actually pose as a differing point of view that isn't forced to adopt ours by the end of the story.

[IkaraGreydancer]

No, I think some of us just want some of the people we meet to not become our friends just because we asked nicely, and who can actually pose as a differing point of view that isn't forced to adopt ours by the end of the story.

Thing is not everyone joins up simply because we nicely ask. And it's not as though the Scions agree on every little thing as it is. Say they do introduce characters that are at odds most of the time what does that really achieve? I've seen many here complain about the story dragging yet wouldnt infighting just drag the story out even more? And I've yet to see anyone "forced" to adopt our views...If you could point out some examples I'm not recalling I'm all ears and will take that back. Those who do join the Scion do so willingly in part because they share the Scions views in one way or another.

[AwesomeJr44]

And it's not as though the Scions agree on every little thing as it is.

There has not been a source of genuine major internal conflict within the scions for a very long time, and any minor conflict that arises is resolved swiftly and with no consequences. No, Urianger pretending to be evil for five seconds in each expansion before revealing that he was really a good guy all along doesn't count.

I've seen many here complain about the story dragging yet wouldnt infighting just drag the story out even more?

It depends. Are we interacting with NPCs that have nothing to do with the current main plot like with what happened in 6.4? Then yes, that is dragging the story out.

And I've yet to see anyone "forced" to adopt our views

The scions are not literally forcing people to bend to their will, it's a problem with the writing and how characters will suddenly act out of character when it's time for them to merge with the scions' hivemind amoeba. This was obviously my point, so much so that I have to question if your misrepresentation of it was intentional. It wouldn't be the first time you have done so.

[IkaraGreydancer]

There has not been a source of genuine major internal conflict within the scions for a very long time, and any minor conflict that arises is resolved swiftly and with no consequences. No, Urianger pretending to be evil for five seconds in each expansion before revealing that he was really a good guy all along doesn't count.



It depends. Are we interacting with NPCs that have nothing to do with the current main plot like with what happened in 6.4? Then yes, that is dragging the story out.



The scions are not literally forcing people to bend to their will, it's a problem with the writing and how characters will suddenly act out of character when it's time for them to merge with the scions' hivemind amoeba. This was obviously my point, so much so that I have to question if your misrepresentation of it was intentional. It wouldn't be the first time you have done so.

If you point has nothing to do with forcing...why use said word? You don't get to say something then accuse (or consider doing as such) someone of misrepresenting when they took you at your word. That's not how this works. Maybe say what you actually mean going forward and this wouldn't happen. When I see the word force that implies something being done against ther will. I post definitions of stuff here often so yes I do go with the literal sense of what I'm reading.

As to the first point why does the inner conflict need to be major to count? Why would anything major even crop up at this point between them? What would that even be realistically?

And lastly who exactly has acted out of character when they joined the Scion "hivemind"? I'd imagine it has to be an extensive amount of people for you to make said point.

[Lauront]

I should note that no sane person would actually disagree with many of the morals that the game preaches. The problem is that it creates bad writing and is extremely uninteresting and frankly unconvincing. Many of the moral dilemmas set up in ARR have been slowly whitted away, such as the city states' war and racism against the beast tribes. But those dilemmas are good writing. Your philosophy is hollow if there are no dilemmas and implementing it is straightforward and trivial. It's why we don't consider breathing oxygen a philosophy, but we consider eating only plant-based food a philosophy.

Well put. There is quite often agreement on what things constitute desirable or good things. That isn't necessarily what makes morality quite hard. It's the fact that it's not always straightforward to overcome human frailties (cui bono, incentives and past grievances both being big ones), to agree on interpretation of a scenario, to even identify the boundaries of what constitutes a moral agent, the degree to which tradition/past practice of what worked vs "reasoned out" approaches should hold sway, and also that you're often balancing conflicting priorities or 'goods'. And of course in some cases there just is disagreement over what is the good, without that meaning people holding these dissonant views do so out of malice. All of that can be a source of conflict even where an ideal is agreed upon. When it's just straightforward imposition of a moral code, in the way you describe (the way the beast tribe conflict was put on ice is emblematic of it), it's not particularly interesting, and you can add to that the occurrence of broken aesops in XIV ("this looks like that, so it's the same!", sometimes relying on the shallowest of parallels to make a "point".) You really need to be willing to include active back and forth and reasonable counter-arguments both within the Scions and from groups opposing them to make this kind of conflict not just amount to a form of moral bulldozing through any troubles that get in the way. Otherwise it's just a form of preaching.

[Nav_Fae]

Predictable? Who here by a show of hands predicted Zodiark would be our first trial? Maybe Hyd being our 2nd. Who here predicted Endsinger would even be a thing or that msq would revolve heavily around themes of nihilism?Who predicted that Zenos would become Shinryu once again and travel the stars to aid us? Who predicted Fandaniel was Amon? Who predicated we'd have a friendly battle with Venat? Hell who predicted Elpis? Like I could ask a hundred of these.

To sit and act Ike everything is oh so predictable is so weird to me. What do you expect us to just start wiping people out who don't agree with us or something? We've always sided more on diplomacy and it'd be jarring if that started to no longer be the case. I'd much rather have consistent characters rather than ones that flip flop at the drop of a hat. BUT thats also why I welcome new ones. I'm at a point where I feel many of yall just want/need a new game

None of it is predictable. People will be given a foreshadow of something two levels before an event or four quests before it. Then reply with, I knew it! Saw this coming! Even though the foreshadow was only made predictable literally 4 quests ago.