Healer role design change?

[Renathras]

I agree with Semi on this one.

Including BLM.

BLM works in FFXIV today because of shoehorning, not because its design is perfectly suited to this game. The "challenge" and "brilliant design" of BLM that is so praised by the hardcore community is... <checks notes> ...memorizing the safe spots in fights so you can sit still for precious seconds and memorizing when there aren't any for a bit so you have to save your big movement CDs for then. In other words, figuring out how to overcome BLM objectively NOT being suited to the game's current combat design that is so focused on motion and "the dance". And the last several expansions have all been focused on giving BLM more mobility. BLM is more mobile than RDM in current FFXIV entirely due to that. It's been given so much on-demand mobility because its basic kit and rotational design doesn't work with FFXIV encounter designs.

In a similar way, WHM now is almost entirely dependent on Lilies to be functional in current content.

Imagine, for a moment, current WHM design without Lilies. So no Solace, Rapture, nor Misery.

It wouldn't be functional. Your only instant cast heals would be Tetra (60 sec), Assize (45), Bene (3 min), Lilibell (if triggered; 3 min), with Regen (?) and Asylum (90 sec) for cases where healing wasn't needed right away, but even there, Asylum has that weird "increases healing" effect, which is in opposition to the concept of "healing isn't needed right away". PoM, Plenary, Temperance, Benison, and Aquaveil aren't heals per se, and only Benison is indirectly one via being a barrier.

Without Lilies, you'd actually NEED to cast Cure 2, Medica/Cure 3, and Medica 2s, none of which can be cast on the move, which would make encounters like BarbiEx extremely challenging for a WHM. Moreover, casing Dia or Regen would be the only GCD options for long movement requirements, like having to cross from one side of an arena to the other.

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The Job is designed just fine...it just doesn't fit FFXIV's current encounter design. It was designed for another game - ARR.

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EDIT:

I have something similar on the suggestions megathread (page 14 if you're curious) Though I would still have at least your standard two direct heals just so that you can heal without a target. Diagnosis and Prognosis do have uses during phase changes or boss transitions. There's some elements from other sage concepts I've shared before, but it's a more streamlined. It was inspired from thoughts I'd had from the earlier conversation.

Valid. This was the thing that annoyed me about SGE in PvP and when I first tried it (first Healer after the rework), I was legitimately pissed off because I thought ALL Healers in PvP were going to play like that. Thank god that wasn't the case. But the thing is, I recognize some people...like...that. Hence my saying they'd need to keep something like Durochole/Ixochole specifically for those cases. Though I suppose Prognosis/Diagnosis are fine in that sense. "Cure 1 and Raise" are apparently standards across FFXIV Healer design.

Right, but the same applies to healers' MP management (modest though it was), melee's positional and uptime management, tank's risk-reward and positional management, etc. Is an actual prevalence of casting on... Casters... really yet another thing we want to axe from the game, in favor of making them increasingly into simply (fully mobile) Mana-shooting Rangers?

I think the argument here is more "encounter design is a problem". At least, that's my argument. Semi may be going for the "Jobs need redesign" angle instead. But I think it's valid to point out, at the least, there's a disconnect between Healer Job design and FFXIV combat encounter design. I think we can all agree on that, too.

Whether one thinks the solution is to change the encounter design combat model, the Job designs/kits, or both, is where we may diverge, but I feel we can all agree that the two are not on the same page.

(Also, I know I'm relatively alone in this - on these forums, not as much in the game - but I happen to like SMN; because it's actually designed to work with the current encounter designs, it's actually enjoyable to play in them and doesn't feel clunky and disjointed and like it was designed for a different game. I'm not saying this to say all Jobs should be like SMN. I'm saying this to say that I do enjoy it and that maybe encounter design really really really does need to be changed before every Job becomes like it...)