Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[Theodric]

Naturally people are going to get frustrated when they're directed to leave feedback and there is not only minimal moderation at play but barely a peep from the 'community representatives' that are supposed to be checking in on this place from time to time. Something which has also been brought up many times in the past, such as here:

I've been contemplating posting this for a while now. More than once I've written up something along these lines only to avoid posting it in the hope that things, in time, might just improve on their own. As it stands, though, they have not.

I've been posting on this forum for years. I enjoy the game for the most part and as a consequence of that enjoyment I like engaging with the community that has formed here - and I've made a few good friends in the process. So, with all that said allow me to get to the core of the matter.

Where are our community representatives?

From time to time, we see a thread made where a community representative introduces themselves. They're usually given a warm welcome but it's very rare to see them post again afterwards.

More recently - and without naming names - this forum has been plagued with subtly worded bait threads and thread 'necromancy' designed to frustrate and irritate the forum community.

This would likely be more apparent if the community representatives assigned to the English language portion of the forum spent more time here and less time on Twitter.

I do not want to come across as mean. I'd like to think that the community representatives are keeping tabs on things here. Perhaps their hands are simply tied for whatever reason. So I, on behalf of the forum community, humbly request that feedback is passed along to the development team in the vein of allowing the community representatives to have more freedom in regards to how and when they can post.

Even a simple comment on a constructive suggestion thread can do a world of good in regards to making people here feel as though their feedback is taken into account. To use an example, there's a pretty major concern from European players such as myself, as seen here:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ver-getting-it

This is the sort of thread I would expect to get more attention and an urgent response. It isn't an unreasonable request, after all - and if players are going to miss out on a mount altogether just because they aren't in the North American or Japanese region then it would be beneficial to know why.

I could link other examples of constructive threads that I would argue deserve attention from community representatives, but I'll keep it to just one example for now.

Again, I am not writing this with the intention of shaming our community representatives. This is just a humble request to be as visible and active here as you are on Twitter.

Source: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...epresentatives

Though even if one were to take issue with such demands or suggestions, they can be attributed to specific individuals and by no means apply to absolutely everybody choosing to leave feedback. Numerous players use this forum for its intended purpose and are perfectly civil and polite in their engagement, so it's genuinely disappointing when any criticism whatsoever is reduced to 'haters' or 'bitter malcontents'.

[Deo14]

When said feedback is supposedly provided, one would be forgiven if said CEO rolls their eyes................when certain more bitter malcontents start demanding the staff be fired

Strawman argument 101. Let's just antagonize everyone who dares to give criticism, by grouping them with those individuals. Even if you didn't group them, it's pathetic to try to back up your argument by few individuals.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Looks like TheDecay never played an FF game before in his life were the plot almost always revolves on some philosophy of life.

[MikkoAkure]

With each patch taking 4.5 months to arrive, two patches would take nine months and three patches would take roughly 13.5 months. That's over a year and not at all what I would consider killing characters 'left and right' as you suggest.

Each patch is only about 10 quests or fewer and takes a couple days to finish at best if you’re being lazy. Each story arc outside the main expansion is usually 2-3 patches except this void one.

The story doesn’t need to have a prominent story character die every single story arc. That will get tiring and lose any sense of shock value, especially if there’s no point except to cater to your own definition of “stakes” or to thin the cast out.


Many stories have stakes without needing to kill or maim characters. It’s such a lowbrow way to create tension in a story and needs more care than “where it makes sense”, it needs to have an actual purpose. It “made sense” to have Yotsuyu die in 4.0, and up until her last bit I would have agreed, but then we wouldn’t have had Tsukuyomi and everything revolving around that. Killing a character (typically) means completely removing them from the plot, ending any potential stories they could have had, as well as player investment in that character, which is why in many stories there’s plot armor or comic books where no one can die.

Character deaths should have a meaning and if every one of your stories depends on someone dying to move the plot forward then people are going to notice and it’s going to feel like a writing crutch. You might get an “oh my!” moment, but if it happens enough people are going to slowly stop caring. I don’t support the constant fake-deaths either but that’s the same exact thing. Killing Y’shtola after she’s already “died” half a dozen times is meaningless at this point.


At this point it’s also kinda funny that you bring up the Game of Thrones quotes considering Yoshi-P asked his team to watch the series when developing FFXVI.

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

The same could be said with the fake out deaths if we calling character deaths a writing crutch.

[Theodric]

The same could be said with the fake out deaths if we calling character deaths a writing crutch.

Yep. Not to mention the cast becoming very bloated with characters who do not meaningfully differ from one another. Any MMO attracts players from many different backgrounds, cultures, personality types and belief systems. As such, not every character or faction in the game is going to cater to absolutely everyone. That's fine.

What's happened, though, is that a bunch of very samey characters who all talk and think exactly like one another now dominate the story. Those that differ meaningfully are either antagonists or very quickly come to share the exact same thinking patterns and belief systems as the Scions.

It makes for a rather boring experience for those of us who have tired of the Scions - and it's a shame that any request for variety is shot down. Culling at least one or two characters each year really isn't that controversial a request. Though if it's going to be treated as some reasonable demand, then there's really no reason to pretend as if there's any weight behind the screeching and preaching of the very same characters who are clad in ridiculous amounts of plot armour.

So, we can either have the cast culled to make room for new characters with more depth and variety to them or we could just have new characters arrive who don't just immediately come to echo the exact same stances as the Scions.

In either case, there seems to be fierce opposition from those who seem to want the game to maintain its current status quo and never meaningfully throw a bone at anyone with different tastes to themselves.

[Nav_Fae]

I think the only thing I really dislike is that the power of friendship is starting to overstay it's welcomed. Especially with how big the friendship pool is expanding, and the amount of networking it contains within. The hero(s) can basically reach out to literally anyone anywhere because of that network strength. Irl, politicians don't even get along with each other like this. I'm also tired of the scions being a massive group of know-it-all bookworms that can single handily solve every wonder of the universe by themselves.

[Kazhar]

I'm also tired of the scions being a massive group of know-it-all bookworms that can single handily solve every wonder of the universe by themselves.

My main issue with the Scions. They're just so homogenous, it doesn't make their friendship feel earned. They're just an echo chamber who agree on every single subject (which happens to be whatever the author at the time thinks is the correct moral answer), they never fight in meaningful ways, they almost all come from a single background. The one source of tension has been the same since HW: Urianger betrays them for the greater good. That's it.

There's more going on with Cloud and Barett at the beginning of OG FFVII (or Zidane and Steiner in IX, or Wakka and everyone in X) than the Scions for the entire duration of XIV.

[MikkoAkure]

The same could be said with the fake out deaths if we calling character deaths a writing crutch.

I said as much in the same paragraph I mentioned writing crutches.

Character deaths should have a meaning and if every one of your stories depends on someone dying to move the plot forward then people are going to notice and it’s going to feel like a writing crutch. You might get an “oh my!” moment, but if it happens enough people are going to slowly stop caring. I don’t support the constant fake-deaths either but that’s the same exact thing. Killing Y’shtola after she’s already “died” half a dozen times is meaningless at this point.

I'm an advocate for better writing in FFXIV, but having a prominent character die every story arc feels like trying to fix a problem with a cudgel and fake-out deaths are an attempt to have a shocking death moment but keep your character too and like deaths, lose their power after more than a few times.

At this point I don't think the writers have it in them to kill the Scions and they've been around for too long. I don't see a purpose for them to kill off any of them right now since it will do nothing for the story. It could have worked for Thancred in ShB when he had another NPC whose character development could have grown based on his death but they didn't take that route for better or worse.

Culling at least one or two characters each year really isn't that controversial a request. Though if it's going to be treated as some reasonable demand, then there's really no reason to pretend as if there's any weight behind the screeching and preaching of the very same characters who are clad in ridiculous amounts of plot armour.

Again, you're looking at it from a release date point of view and it doesn't make sense to me to have a character death quota for a story-based game to be based on "real-world time passed since the last death", the game's story isn't written in the context of "when content is released". "One or two characters each year" still resolves to "once or twice a story arc" and I think that's a bit much, especially if someone comes to the content later. I took a break in ARR so Moenbryda came and went in a flash for me and I never got to care. Having someone die every few hours of MSQ gameplay would be the same thing.

So, we can either have the cast culled to make room for new characters with more depth and variety to them or we could just have new characters arrive who don't just immediately come to echo the exact same stances as the Scions.

In either case, there seems to be fierce opposition from those who seem to want the game to maintain its current status quo and never meaningfully throw a bone at anyone with different tastes to themselves.

We should have new characters. The Scions arc feels over and I think the place we're at where they're in semi-retirement makes sense for a future where they take a backseat and let new people to drive, alongside 1 or 2 previous main characters to more gently pass the torch. But actually having them culled to make room for new people is a surefire way to make people not care about the new cast and there's many examples of media in history to show how that's a bad idea.

[Theodric]

There's more going on with Cloud and Barett at the beginning of OG FFVII than the Scions for the entire duration of XIV.

Yeah. The same can be said of Zidane and Steiner in FFIX. Or Basch and Vaan in FFXII. Or Noctis and Gladio when they clash later on in FFXV.

I found Zero interesting for all of five minutes. A character with a mercenary attitude who gave the impression of being someone who could help or hinder in equal measure intrigued me. It didn't take her very long to immediately be on board with the rest of the Scions and echo their views. Worst yet, any unique take she could have had due to being a former Voidsent was tossed aside in favour of having her lecture her former brethren. She's lucky enough to be the super special singular Voidsent who is purified and now acts as the equivalent of someone who just won the lottery heading to an isolated poor village and asking why the locals turn to banditry out of sheer desperation to feed themselves and their families.