Healer role design change?

[ty_taurus]

Mit: Either add Protect as a 60s CD that mirrors CU on AST (upgrading to PI at later levels to save hotbar space), or drop Temperance to a 1min CD, shortening it's duration a little (to 15s) if needed.

In general, I've started to develop the preference of really cutting total actions down in favor of making the actions that stay more frequent. For example, I really like Haima and Panhaima. I think they're interesting, but I'd rather see them become 60 second cooldowns instead, and I'd be happy to remove tools like some or all of the -choles in order to justify that much accessibility. So I'd much rather see something like Temperance drop to 60 seconds or less even if that means reducing the effects somewhat. Adding charges also helps. For example, why does Scholar need both Indomitability and Fey Blessing? Why does it need Whispering Dawn and Sacred Soil and Fey Illumination?

I want to see each kit curated down to the most interesting unique tools, and use that extra space to add ways to interact with those tools more. For example, why not cut Asylum and Plenary Indulgence completely and make Liturgy a permanent object you place. Every time you hit Liturgy with an AoE heal, you can activate it to trigger an OGCD AoE heal, and it can store up to 5 charges this way? One action releases all charges at once for HP burst recovery, another grants you a buff that automatically consumes a single charge to heal a smaller amount when you take damage (mimicking the current Liturgy effect), and maybe you have a third action--a DPS spell that causes all charges to hit enemies with a damage down effect for added mitigation, or something o that effect? This could also resolve the Assize problem. Instead of Assize healing additionally, it adds a charge to your Liturgy. Maybe you can spend your charges to either heal, or

[ForsakenRoe]

For example, why does Scholar need both Indomitability and Fey Blessing? Why does it need Whispering Dawn and Sacred Soil and Fey Illumination?

Soil's for mit, idk why they added the regen in SHB. I thought it was dumb at the time too. For Indom/Blessing, I've said ages ago that I'd probably remove Blessing, and rework Deploy so that the Fairy does a copy of the skill you use, from a list. Indom would make the fairy do Fey Indom (functionally equivalent to Blessing atm), Deploy Adlo would be a double ST shield on one target for super mit on a tankbuster, Deploy Succor would be current Adlo-Deploy, bigger partywide shielding, and Deploy Excog would be for 'I really don't want this tank to get instaslapped by an auto and die after this TB' I guess

As for a merged Illum/WDawn, I think you are describing Physis2, but jokes aside, yeh I'm not a massive fan of Fey Illumination's existence either, I'd rather have lost it in the prune than Rouse for example

[Aravell]

Rework Deploy so that the Fairy does a copy of the skill you use, from a list. Indom would make the fairy do Fey Indom (functionally equivalent to Blessing atm), Deploy Adlo would be a double ST shield on one target for super mit on a tankbuster, Deploy Succor would be current Adlo-Deploy, bigger partywide shielding, and Deploy Excog would be for 'I really don't want this tank to get instaslapped by an auto and die after this TB' I guess

This system would actually be very interesting on SGE. Imagine if:
- Dosis is a straight heal on Kardia target
- Eukrasian Dosis is a regen on Kardia target
- Dyskrasia pulses an AoE heal out from Kardia target
- Phlegma places a shield on Kardia target
- Pneuma pulses an AoE shield out from Kardia target

[ty_taurus]

Soil's for mit, idk why they added the regen in SHB. I thought it was dumb at the time too. For Indom/Blessing, I've said ages ago that I'd probably remove Blessing, and rework Deploy so that the Fairy does a copy of the skill you use, from a list. Indom would make the fairy do Fey Indom (functionally equivalent to Blessing atm), Deploy Adlo would be a double ST shield on one target for super mit on a tankbuster, Deploy Succor would be current Adlo-Deploy, bigger partywide shielding, and Deploy Excog would be for 'I really don't want this tank to get instaslapped by an auto and die after this TB' I guess

As for a merged Illum/WDawn, I think you are describing Physis2, but jokes aside, yeh I'm not a massive fan of Fey Illumination's existence either, I'd rather have lost it in the prune than Rouse for example

I'd rather see Whispering Dawn upgrade into Fey Blessing, and/or have that replace Indomitability as your OGCD AoE heal. I also don't see the point in having both Physis II and Kerachole. I get that Physis II has the healing increased effect, but I'd rather rework how you access that rather than have two slightly different OGCD regens. And that's kinda my point with Soil/WD/Illumination... they all bleed together.

This system would actually be very interesting on SGE. Imagine if:
- Dosis is a straight heal on Kardia target
- Eukrasian Dosis is a regen on Kardia target
- Dyskrasia pulses an AoE heal out from Kardia target
- Phlegma places a shield on Kardia target
- Pneuma pulses an AoE shield out from Kardia target

I'd want more choice involved with Kardia. That kind of change just makes the regens and barriers consequences of doing your rotation. I've actually started thinking more along the lines of something like:

Dosis - Deals 330 Potency. No MP Cost. No Kardia Effect
New Spell - Deals 330 Potency. 800 MP Cost. Heals your Kardia target with a potency of 250.

In the past, my concepts of a Sage rework included other similar concepts. Namely Polydipsia which replaces Soteria: a DPS spell that applies 4 stacks of Soteria to your Kardia target, doubling the Kardia effects granted by other spells, or Eukrasian Polydipsia which instead grants 2 stacks of Therapeia to your Kardia target which blasts the Kardia effects of other spells to all allies nearby them.

Basically, your DPS rotation is about making choices with your Kardia healing, and using Dosis when you don't need to heal.

[Renathras]

In general, I've started to develop the preference of really cutting total actions down in favor of making the actions that stay more frequent. For example, I really like Haima and Panhaima. I think they're interesting, but I'd rather see them become 60 second cooldowns instead, and I'd be happy to remove tools like some or all of the -choles in order to justify that much accessibility.

Kind of agree with this (whole paragraph). I was thinking earlier this evening how much I like Emergency Tactics.

...no, wait, hear me out, please.

What I like about it is how FREQUENT it is. It's a modifier ability, which means it allows other abilities (Succor and Adlo) to pull double duty, like Eukrasia. Unlike Eukrasia, though, it's limited by a CD. But it's not a really heavily punishing one. I think it was 20 or 30 seconds originally, but it's 15 now. I was thinking how I like Plenary, but it's only once per minute, which tends to mean I think of other things to use first. The CD is in that weird place where it's JUST long enough to be out of mind, but not long enough to be a major or clutch ability.

Contrast, also, PvP abilities. Other than LBs themselves, abilities with CDs are usually either 15 sec or 20 sec CDs, meaning they're up all the time. Short CDs like that result in buttons that feel somewhat impactful, because they can't be spammed, but still accessible and go-to since they're still frequently available.

.

As for the SGE discussion:

My ideal for SGE at this point - I'd never touch it, but I know some people really want this - would be to remove (almost) all of its healing. Give it a DPS rotation on par with SMN's/RDM's (without the melee bit) and boost its Kardia to be serious healing. Give it a few oGCDs for mitigation (Kerachole, for example), and some emergency heal for when Kardia isn't cutting it (Durochole, for example), and that's it. Its main use oGCDs would be things like boosting Kardia with Soteria, a Synastry/Beacon of Light second short duration Kardia, and an AOE Kardia. Performing its DPS rotation correctly combined with proper Kardia targeting/hot-swapping/use of the extra Kardia oGCDs would be what leads to proper healing performance.

Right now, SGE can debateably outheal a pure Healer depending on how you look at it and consider eHP, and that aside, given the lowish healing requirements in this game, SGE can do ample overhealing. Its oGCD heals are ridiculously powerful and accessible. It has better Regen healing than WHM (or even AST, I think), and can access them on the oGCD, unlike WHM's Regen and Medica 2, which are DPS losses to use. Asylum on a 90 sec CD is WHM's only oGCD regen, while SGE has two (four if you count Panhamia/Hamia, though those are more akin to Lilybell), Physis with a 60 sec CD and Kerochole with a 30 sec (which unlike SCH, doesn't compete with Energy Drain so can be used freely). And right now, it doesn't have the "heals by doing damage" feel. Kardia feels like (and functionally is) Eos' Embrace while SGE's bulk healing is done with its oGCDs.

[ty_taurus]

Kind of agree with this (whole paragraph). I was thinking earlier this evening how much I like Emergency Tactics.

...no, wait, hear me out, please.

I don't see anything wrong with liking Emergency Tactics. In concept, I think it's great also. It's just that, now more than ever, it's heavily power-crept. Ironically, it was already seeing power creep in HW when it was added because Indom was also added and is a considerably stronger healing tool that also has a short cooldown. ET would've really shined during ARR though. And that leads me to a different point... We keep getting new healing cooldowns each expansion, but healing requirements don't increase to compensate for this added healing, so what ends up happening is old healing actions start getting power-crept out, and you end up with "dead" buttons that aren't being used anymore.

Contrast, also, PvP abilities.

The think to keep in mind about PVP though is that PVP gameplay is a different experience. In PVP, combat is experienced in brief skirmishes that you constantly jump in and out of, with the fights themselves being unpredictable. Meanwhile, the standard PVE experience is about enduring long, drawn-out encounters with a learnable pattern. So it makes sense why PVP cooldowns are that much shorter. Now don't get me wrong, as I said above, I think we could trim a lot of fat by taking the most interesting healing cooldowns and making those more often accessible while cutting the less interesting ones, but I think it's an important distinction to acknowledge when talking about job design in this game.

As for the SGE discussion:

I have something similar on the suggestions megathread (page 14 if you're curious) Though I would still have at least your standard two direct heals just so that you can heal without a target. Diagnosis and Prognosis do have uses during phase changes or boss transitions. There's some elements from other sage concepts I've shared before, but it's a more streamlined. It was inspired from thoughts I'd had from the earlier conversation.

[ForsakenRoe]

I don't see anything wrong with liking Emergency Tactics. In concept, I think it's great also. It's just that, now more than ever, it's heavily power-crept. Ironically, it was already seeing power creep in HW when it was added because Indom was also added and is a considerably stronger healing tool that also has a short cooldown. ET would've really shined during ARR though.

ET would still have a place, I think, if it weren't just 'the next ONE spell has it's shield converted into raw healing'. Dusty's Black/White Grimoires idea made the most sense to me, have ET's effect as one of the stances you can be in, 'shield mode heals' be the opposite stance. I'd even add more to that and make it so that if you're in the 'shielding' Grimoire mode, your pure heal tools ie Indom are converted to do shielding, at a lower effectiveness (ie, 200p shield vs 400p pure healing), to incentivize... actually shielding, on a shield-focused healer, crazy I know

I don't necessarily 'hate' ET, I just put it in the same category as Pepsis: it's there, it exists, it's learned at level 58, it could be so much more than it is

If anything, I'd probably put the cast times on the big-trucking-hits, minus Misery? So, to me, at the very least, Quake, Flood, Tornado absolutely should have cast times (possibly a full GCD's), though I'd then want to see some timing-flexibility on them (if that wasn't in the mockup; can't easily go and check right now from on my phone).

Yeh I left those hard hits as 'the same cast time as their lower counterparts', so Quake was 1.5s, the other two instantcast. I think having them change to have a different cast time from their base form is not ideal in terms of fluidity (ie, you need to heal on the move cos mechanic, you press the heal, empower spells, now you can't cast that Banish because it's suddenly got a cast time), so maybe just having Banish/Flood be a 2.0s cast (slightly longer than Glare, but it does hit harder) might be enough, that'd put the count up to 13/24 GCDs having cast times, so just over half. Or maybe having Banish have a cast time, but the upgraded forms all being instantcast, things 'empowering and gaining instantcast property' is a lot less wonky for gameplay than 'thing empowers and suddenly gains a cast time you're forced to respect'

I'll just leave it as is, with the excuse of 'hey, if only 8/24, literally one third, of the GCDs ask the player to stand still, that makes the design super-casual-friendly, which means it fits way better with what SE's looking for'. I don't exactly associate 'healer role' with 'the class is glued to the floor', since in 'the other game' it's mostly only Priest and Shaman that get glued to the floor, iirc. If we needed a class in this game that is the token 'I cannot move even one pixel' healer class, I'd nominate it be SGE, because it has Icarus, in a similar fashion to BLM's refusal to move, and it having Aetherial Manipulation. Also if it's damage contributed to it's healing in a more robust design than 'teehee 170p on one guy', it'd stand to reason that it would want to stand still and deal damage constantly with as few interruptions as possible

[Shurrikhan]

...

Personally, I'd kinda like to see something similar-ish to the SMN route, wherein each gives a chain of utility-including available actions that one can use or just skip past.

For instance, let's say you've got Quake as a long cast, Flood as a charge-up (hold cast for up to 1 GCD's time), and Tornado as a channel that can be held for up to 1 GCD (operating in 20% of GCD ticks).

Quake would apply Resonance, causing your ST attacks to deal 100 potency also to all other enemies nearby.

Flood would change your heals from casts to charge-ups, dealing their full potency even if the cast is cancelled early by movement but dealing 200 more potency if cast at their normal times.

Tornado would grant Vortex for a duration based on channel time, causing your DoT to be usable over direct damage (ST filler) for a bit.

From there, Banish would probably be a 1.5s cast time.

Something like that.

(I don't remember what "BotE" was.)