Slight Sage Changes

[Aravell]

I mostly agree with most of the changes asked for here, like AoE Kardia would be neat, Krasis is also kind of underwhelming and is most usually used as another Soteria for strengthening Kardia heals on the tank.

But one thing I absolutely disagree with is damage neutral Toxikon. If you make Toxikon damage neutral, you'd trivialise tank healing much more than it already is. You'd do just as much damage keeping 100% uptime of Eukrasian Diagnosis on the tank as long as you don't overlap it before it breaks. That's like saying that for SCH, if your Adlo breaks, your next Broil IV will do 590 potency and be instant cast. It'll completely break any semblance of healer balance and make SGE the objectively best choice for everything except log runs. Not to mention you'd get 3 x 660 potency hits for every burst window, which would make SGE the undisputed king of damage from the healer role. It would basically be griefing to not lock 1 slot to SGE in regular PF.

However, if you bump up Toxikon to be less of a damage loss, that's completely reasonable. Losing 330 potency for using your movement tool is too much, considering SCH only loses 75 potency if Ruin II is needed.

[ty_taurus]

However, if you bump up Toxikon to be less of a damage loss, that's completely reasonable. Losing 330 potency for using your movement tool is too much, considering SCH only loses 75 potency if Ruin II is needed.

We could also make Toxikon not a glorified mobility button and make it actually something interesting and worth generating, but I know I'm a big meanie for suggesting something so transformative on a tool commonly considered inoffensive.

[Aravell]

We could also make Toxikon not a glorified mobility button and make it actually something interesting and worth generating, but I know I'm a big meanie for suggesting something so transformative on a tool commonly considered inoffensive.

I'm inclined to agree that Toxikon could be a unique button, given that SGE does not really need a Ruin II equivalent (but worse). I'm not against the idea of changing it at all, I'm only against the idea of just lazily making it damage neutral just because Afflatus Misery is damage neutral.

[ty_taurus]

I'm inclined to agree that Toxikon could be a unique button, given that SGE does not really need a Ruin II equivalent (but worse). I'm not against the idea of changing it at all, I'm only against the idea of just lazily making it damage neutral just because Afflatus Misery is damage neutral.

For clarity, I wasn't specifically trying to call you out or anything, just that I've been met with resistance to changing Toxikon in the past because "It's fine the way it is, we just need Rhizomata to grant 1 Addersting and BAM! Perfect game design."

[ForsakenRoe]

I'm inclined to agree that Toxikon could be a unique button, given that SGE does not really need a Ruin II equivalent (but worse). I'm not against the idea of changing it at all, I'm only against the idea of just lazily making it damage neutral just because Afflatus Misery is damage neutral.

And that's why I went for 'Breaking Diagnosis/Prognosis shields in any way (so yes Pepsis, but not timing out) grants {buff name}, allowing one use of Phlegma without cost or regard to it's cooldown. If Phlegma is already ready, the cooldown is consumed before the buff (alignment reasons)'. This way, it's a 60p loss to do it, but it can maybe be made up for with raidbuffs (ala pooling a Dark Arts on DRK for the 2min), and it gives you the opportunity to get two GCDs for mobility for that price (one being the shield, one being the Phlegma refunded). I agree that having it be 100% damage refunded (or worse, more as with Misery-in-raidbuffs gameplay) is not great, because then the gameplay becomes 'constantly put up Diagnosis shields on tank, then Toxicon on every other GCD', as if tank survivability needed any help. Rather, I'd like to think that the opportunity cost I have here, of 60p, is small enough to make 'sac some damage for safety' not be a moral dilemma for people, and yet big enough to make people think twice about spamming shields carelessly

And ofc, this also frees up Toxicon to be something more than 'scuffed Ruin 2'. My solution for that would take too long to explain, being as I reworked Addersting into a 0-100 gauge and etc. Needless to say, regardless of opinions on what I'd do to it, Toxicon right now is just underwhelming as a skill. A mobility option that only lets you have 3 uses unless you restore some by losing damage. A 'damage refund' that refunds only 50%. It's just weird, and honestly just feels to me like they went 'SCH has Ruin 2, how do we make Ruin 2, again, but with a twist so it's different'

[Aravell]

For clarity, I wasn't specifically trying to call you out or anything, just that I've been met with resistance to changing Toxikon in the past because "It's fine the way it is, we just need Rhizomata to grant 1 Addersting and BAM! Perfect game design."

Oh don't worry, I assumed you weren't targetting that at me because I've never called you a meanie or any such things.

Needless to say, regardless of opinions on what I'd do to it, Toxicon right now is just underwhelming as a skill. A mobility option that only lets you have 3 uses unless you restore some by losing damage. A 'damage refund' that refunds only 50%. It's just weird, and honestly just feels to me like they went 'SCH has Ruin 2, how do we make Ruin 2, again, but with a twist so it's different'

I'm not much of a theorycrafter, but an idea off the top of my head is to make Rhizomata also grant an addersting, which allows the use of Toxikon, and then Toxikon will buff the next Phlegma to, say, 750 potency, and you can hold 2 charges of Toxikon. This will turn it into a soft combo of sorts, allowing you to stock for a burst window as well.

[ty_taurus]

The reason why I think Addersting on Rhizomata is a big mistake is because now you have pressure to use Rhizomata on cooldown even if you don't need or can't even use the Addersgall gain. Even if Addersting is only DPS neutral, simply having more charges of mobility offers the potential for better DPS uptime. In essenence, we create a softer version of the Assize problem where you need to hope the stars align in order for the Addersgall charge to come in handy, or simply just burn extra Addersgall on nothing for a little extra MP.

[IceBlueNinja]

Quite frankly, even with the trait, it currently still technically has a 120 second CD because why use it on anything but Pneuma? Even at 60 seconds you're still likely to just sit on it until Pneuma is up just to avoid desyncing them. Getting charges would help this skill more than CD adjustments, as you could then occasionally justify using it on Eukrasian Diagnosis/Prognosis.

Fair enough though call me wierd but I do use it on e diag/prog for some meaty shields, good as pneuma is I honestly confess I rarely seem to have reason to use it unless in very intense moments and even without zoe on it 600 pot is a solid heal. Usually Keracole/physis 2/Ixochole is already doing enough healing to top up the entire party. Honestly sometimes sage feel like more a pure healer than a shield one(which I was hoping they honestly do and let ast kept noct stance) for how powerful its heal kit is and with no downsides to boot.

[Aravell]

The reason why I think Addersting on Rhizomata is a big mistake is because now you have pressure to use Rhizomata on cooldown even if you don't need or can't even use the Addersgall gain. Even if Addersting is only DPS neutral, simply having more charges of mobility offers the potential for better DPS uptime. In essenence, we create a softer version of the Assize problem where you need to hope the stars align in order for the Addersgall charge to come in handy, or simply just burn extra Addersgall on nothing for a little extra MP.

I agree that the Assize issue is a longstanding problem. But as the kit currently is, there really isn't much they can do with Toxikon. Regarding Rhizomata, even in savage content, I often find myself overcapping addersgall already, so I agree that Rhizomata generating addersting would be a problem. The whole system could use a change, honestly.

[ty_taurus]

I agree that the Assize issue is a longstanding problem. But as the kit currently is, there really isn't much they can do with Toxikon. Regarding Rhizomata, even in savage content, I often find myself overcapping addersgall already, so I agree that Rhizomata generating addersting would be a problem. The whole system could use a change, honestly.

I can think of a few different minor solutions that would make Toxikon less of a complete failure and more of an actually useful and interesting tool without making any sweeping changes to Sage, though I would like to see Sage return to the drawing board and have them actually go through with creating a healer designed for the players who want a DPS-heavy healer like it was originally pitched as.

1. Increase the potency of Toxikon II to something higher than 330 but lower than 660--let's stay 550--and give it a 15 second cooldown so you aren't just storing and dumping 3 uses every buff window. It doesn't make GCD barriers desirable, but at least now you're actually getting some amount of a refund when you do use them. Then, replace the Kardia healing from Eukrasian Dosis with a small barrier, and when that barrier breaks, you also generate 1 Addersting. You can also add the concept someone else mentioned about Pepsis popping barriers also granting you Addersting that way, and make Pepsis also effect the Eukrasian Dosis Kardia barrier. You get 1 free Addersting every 30 seconds.

2. Separate Toxikon from Toxikon II and make both OGCD actions. Both have the same potency, something lower than 330 like 220 for example. Toxikon II has a 20 second cooldown and requires Addersting, which can be gained through GCD barriers (same situation as explained above technically). Regular Toxikon on the other hand has 2 charges and a 20 second cooldown or something like that. Each use of Toxikon has a 50% chance of proccing Addersting.

Both of these require very little effort and use resources that already exist and could very easily have been done at any point during EW. Both accomplish making Sage a more offensive healer like what is apparently the goal of the job, and succeed at making Addersting an at least a mildly interesting resource.