Dragon Sight change - Just remove positionals already

[zeth07]

What are you smoking? Your position in relation to your opponent/s is a very high level skill to have, especially in fighting games. Knowing your position relative to your opponent is crucial in knowing what you can do, what they can do and as a result, try and predict what they will do to give yourself the advantage. Whilst it is not as crucial in action games, in fighting games, it is absolutely a high level skill that takes a long time to master.

There is one crucial thing that plays into fighting games in regards to your position, and that is anticipation, where/what do you think your opponent is going to go and putting yourself in a spot to best utilise that. The same goes for FFXIV. You need to anticipate where you need to stand before the boss moves. If you need to go clockwise to hit the rear, but you know the boss is about to turn to do a mechanic, go anti-clockwise instead. Encounters are fixed, you know what is coming, so there is no reason you cannot anticipate where the boss is going to be and adjust accordingly, especially in fixed groups where you know where everyone is going to be. it is this skill that I believe most are not playing into when playing melee. They think where they need to go at the time rather than anticipating where they need to go in the future. This is why people like positionals and why it is rewarding to hit them.

Nice job taking what I said out of context, or at least ignoring the context entirely.

Surely you are not about to compare hitting positionals in FFXIV (moving 1mm left/right) to the same thing as footsies or screen spacing in fighting games? I hope you can clearly understand the distinction between the two when I talk about the "skill" required to play these games by comparison, and not taking what I say out of context or misunderstanding it. That would be a terrible look...But yes your explanation would more or less be proving my point if you didn't misunderstand what I was saying. Or at least the reason I was saying it.

You say that it's the same in FFXIV, but it's not. When those situations come up, you literally have buttons to press that let you ignore the situation. Which again, I brought up....Which invalidates the entire point of the positionals as a mechanic being a challenge when the "skill" of performing them is to in fact know when you don't need to do them by pressing a single button.

If anything I would point out how hard fighting games are as perceived by new players and why developers are always so invested in making them easier for more casuals players to get into, which still doesn't account for actual fighting game fundamentals such as spacing...Which is more or less the complete opposite of how FFXIV is perceived, rightfully so, because it's already so welcoming to new players and they are STILL making adjustments so there is less of a skill gap.

The difference in physically/mentally playing a job in FFXIV (NOT the fight mechanics) is nothing compared to learning/playing a fighting game character in terms of execution required.

[ZiraZ]

hitting positionals in FFXIV (moving 1mm left/right)

When those situations come up, you literally have buttons to press that let you ignore the situation. Which again, I brought up....Which invalidates the entire point of the positionals as a mechanic being a challenge when the "skill" of performing them is to in fact know when you don't need to do them by pressing a single button.

moving 1mm left/right

Still waiting for anyone that posts drivel like this to show proof of positional being this simple and boring, come on show 100% positionals done on P9S, P11S, P12S or EX6 fights, nobody has provided any while saying it's easy at the same time yet, they just go dark after asking them or just becomes excuse city.
and no the target dummy is not proof. neither is normal

[Mikey_R]

Nice job taking what I said out of context, or at least ignoring the context entirely.

1. Surely you are not about to compare hitting positionals in FFXIV (moving 1mm left/right) to the same thing as footsies or screen spacing in fighting games? I hope you can clearly understand the distinction between the two when I talk about the "skill" required to play these games by comparison, and not taking what I say out of context or misunderstanding it. That would be a terrible look...But yes your explanation would more or less be proving my point if you didn't misunderstand what I was saying. Or at least the reason I was saying it.

2. You say that it's the same in FFXIV, but it's not. When those situations come up, you literally have buttons to press that let you ignore the situation. Which again, I brought up....Which invalidates the entire point of the positionals as a mechanic being a challenge when the "skill" of performing them is to in fact know when you don't need to do them by pressing a single button.

3. If anything I would point out how hard fighting games are as perceived by new players and why developers are always so invested in making them easier for more casuals players to get into, which still doesn't account for actual fighting game fundamentals such as spacing...Which is more or less the complete opposite of how FFXIV is perceived, rightfully so, because it's already so welcoming to new players and they are STILL making adjustments so there is less of a skill gap.

4. The difference in physically/mentally playing a job in FFXIV (NOT the fight mechanics) is nothing compared to learning/playing a fighting game character in terms of execution required.

1. But that is exactly what you did, used spacing in fighting games, claiming they are the lowest level of skill and using that to justify why positionals shouldn't exist. If it isn't relevant, why did you bring it up in the first place? Also, positionals are more than just moving slightly left and right as has been explained countless times. Positionals in a vacuum don't seem to add much, but once you have to start dancing around mechanics, that is when they become fun.

2. The balance between the availability of positional ignoring options and the frequency in which you need to use them should always be considered. Old RoE was too much and I would say current TN is also too much. You should need to choose when to use the option and potentially plan their use for each fight. Might this mean you don't get 100% positionals? Probably, but noone expects you to hit everything anyway, plus, as they are now, hitting 99/98% of them as opposed to 100% isn't going to make or break a fight.

3. That's because you can't really ease someone into a fighting game. Sure, you can beat up an AI, but that is nothing compared to a human, which requires a very very different mindset and extensive knowledge of everything you and your opponent can do in each given situation so that you can properly formulate a response to whatever might be happening. FFXIV doesn't have that, so you cannot compare them in that way.

4. No, it isn't. But that was never your point, or mine.

I will once again point to casters who have ways to cancel out their cast times, so why is it an issue of melees have a way to cancel positionals?

And now, again, for the question I always ask but noone wants to answer, let's even make it bold to try and attract some eyes to it this time:

Why could we NOT have the melees cover the whole spectrum in regards to number of positionals? Have a melee that has none, have some in the middle, have one with loads. Everyone should be satisfied then as there will be a job for everyone.

[SerMicha]

Why could we NOT have the melees cover the whole spectrum in regards to number of positionals? Have a melee that has none, have some in the middle, have one with loads. Everyone should be satisfied then as there will be a job for everyone.

If RPR had 0 positionals and MNK had 6, you'd be amazed (or not) how many Reapers will complain that MNK is unplayable due to its positional requirements. People love to complain about jobs they don't play.
If that RPR complained that MNK is too hard, and a MNK responds saying they enjoy the job that way, we could probably guess whose side SE would take (EW SMN, SHB Healers).

I agree that jobs need to have varying gaps between skill floors/ceilings. A job with a low skill floor AND ceiling would be fine, as long as we keep some jobs with a high ceiling. What you're suggesting is fine, IMO.
Unfortunately, SE's way of making jobs more accessible/approachable is to lower both floor and ceiling, rather than just lower the floor while trying to maintain the ceiling. They could have totally introduced Blitzes without removing positionals.
I'd be disappointed but not surprised if they did remove positionals at some point...