Magical change of appearance in the lore

[MikkoAkure]

Wait, I though fantasies were Canon, just heavily regulated and hard to get access too. Almost everything in the game (including party finder) is Canon and has an in universe explanation.

According to Koji Fox:

Fantasia works in a unique way. It can’t simply turn you into whoever you want, or people could get away with anything. Crime would be out of control. Even on Earth, people have the opportunity to change who they are – cut their hair, get a facelift, find a new career or a different spouse – but we often aren’t willing to make those drastic life changes. Fantasia gives you the courage to make the changes you’ve always wanted to make. Maybe you are Lalafell trapped in a Roegadyn’s body, it’s time to break out! And all you needed was that courage in a phial!

https://gamerescape.com/2014/10/25/f...st-london-qas/

According to what seemed to be an unofficial meetup with someone from the localization team:

While the Fantasia potion has some in-world flavor text, it’s mainly meant to be seen as a meta object. For example, you wouldn’t see it’s use, or reference to its use in storylines since in effect it doesn’t actually exist

https://nunhofthat.tumblr.com/post/1...ck-im-in-japan

Koji’s answer seems a bit tongue-in-cheek so I’m more inclined to go in line with the 2nd one.

Not everything in the game is canon. Hildebrand for example is “as canon as you want it to be” since much of it breaks character and defies the laws of physics and logic.

[Cleretic]

Not everything in the game is canon. Hildebrand for example is “as canon as you want it to be” since much of it breaks character and defies the laws of physics and logic.

But in that case, your answer for 'how canon you want it to be' can't be 'not', because there's a bunch of things that are first divulged in Hildibrand but then become important later, like Godbert Manderville and the truth about Sil'dih.

[Kakurady]

The existence of Fantasia is not acknowledged by dialogue, so it has no continuity with any other lore.

Outside of Fantasia, there are some cases of permanent changes to a being's physiology, but none of them appears to be fully controllable.

One tempered by a primal would take on features of that primal's element, becoming monstrous. Ishgardians who partake a dragon's blood may find themselves transformed into a dragon, usually one of three types. The Mad King Theodoric transformed his rivals into monsters. And the pixies also like to transform those who wander into Il Mheg—though other than leafmen, the results aren't fully predictable.

There are also targeted transformations used as temporary enfeeblements: adventurers may find themselves transformed into a toad, an imp, or an old crone, though usually they turn back before long—assuming they survive.

Finally when it comes to glamour, we as players use it to make one item appear to be another of a similar size and shape. But other users of glamour magick are not always beholden to such limitations.

The false Inquisitor was able to glamour himself into a dragon much larger than he is. And the sylphs are adept users of glamour, able to pass themselves as one of the five races, and even mimicking the Warrior of Light in the tribal quests. NPCs in the ninja quests also wield ninjutsu that allow them to pass as someone else; one antagonist scales himself up to face you.

Such uses of glamour do not seem to be common.

Nanamo doesn't use glamour to become her alter-ego, I wonder why?

[Iscah]

But in that case, your answer for 'how canon you want it to be' can't be 'not', because there's a bunch of things that are first divulged in Hildibrand but then become important later, like Godbert Manderville and the truth about Sil'dih.

Hildibrand is a story set in the canon world of FFXIV, so when it references other parts of the world, it is accurate to them.

That does not mean that Hildibrand is true and canon from the outside looking in.

Godbert and Sil'dih exist whether you have done the Hildibrand quests or not, or even if they were hypothetically wiped from the game entirely.

[Cleretic]

Hildibrand is a story set in the canon world of FFXIV, so when it references other parts of the world, it is accurate to them.

That does not mean that Hildibrand is true and canon from the outside looking in.

Godbert and Sil'dih exist whether you have done the Hildibrand quests or not, or even if they were hypothetically wiped from the game entirely.

This is true, but Hildibrand's also the place where a lot of stuff like that first gets expanded on. Big dumb slapstick it might be, but Hildibrand's tendency to 'look low' on the setting and do much smaller stories than we often see means that it shines a light on parts of the setting that just don't get talked about otherwise, because there's pretty much nothing to fight (or craft) about it.

That's basically what I'm trying to say: What Hildibrand says about the world is often something that Hildibrand's getting the first chance to expand on, so you can't just throw the whole thing in the bin of 'non-canon'.

[shadowclasper]

According to Koji Fox:

https://gamerescape.com/2014/10/25/f...st-london-qas/

According to what seemed to be an unofficial meetup with someone from the localization team:

https://nunhofthat.tumblr.com/post/1...ck-im-in-japan

Koji’s answer seems a bit tongue-in-cheek so I’m more inclined to go in line with the 2nd one.

Not everything in the game is canon. Hildebrand for example is “as canon as you want it to be” since much of it breaks character and defies the laws of physics and logic.

Given his dad is just as wacky but actually involved in ul'dahn politics that's blatantly false, and multiple characters in it appear in more serious story lines but remember you from hilde quests

Secondly, the localization team has significantly less power or clout about the narrative than Koji, however flippant (especially at something unofficial). Combine that with the fact the game has literally gone out of it's way to give an in universe explanation for quite literally every single game mechanic, including party finder as of 5.4-5.5, and I don't think anyone can argue in good faith that fantasias don't exist in universe.

At best it can be seen as an argument that ti undergo the massive restructuring if aether necessary to change species requires some significant changing in one's mentality.

Personally I just rp my Viera as always having been one, but I personally want eorzea to be a place that just goes 'you get the body you want if you're brave enough to make the changes'

[RyuDragnier]

Not everything in the game is canon. Hildebrand for example is “as canon as you want it to be” since much of it breaks character and defies the laws of physics and logic.

I'm still of the mindset that all of the Hildibrand questline is being told by Nashu, which is why everything is so ridiculous. She IS the one who breaks the 4th wall when it comes to what to expect next from the adventures. She's eccentric enough to where certain things make no sense, but DO make sense if you look at them from a different perspective.

Julyan being a horrible cook yet can make something dispelling zombie powder makes perfect sense when you remember that there are 2 crafting jobs that cook, Culinarian AND Alchemist. Julyan isn't a CUL, she's an ALC.
Hildibrand rising from the grave yet being found in the desert with "zombies" doesn't make sense. However, Hildibrand being presumed dead yet being found alive after Dalamud by a band of brigands, makes perfect sense.

You get the point, I feel Nashu is vastly exaggerating what happened, and we're seeing all of it from what SHE thinks happened.

[shadowclasper]

Don't we run into the zombies at least once outside Hildebrand quests? And I know zombies are a real mob because that's what screwed over sil'dih. That said, I don't think the core of your theory is entirely unsound. Plus when we run into the ishgaddian inspector he is at first terrified that the ridiculousness of Hildy will be following us so at least some level of him doing this crazy shit happens.

Also just gonna point out, quite a bit of what Hildebrand and other characters in there do is copied elsewhere in a less silky format

Dragoon quests
Warrior quests
Ninja quests

All of them have massive insane physics defying feats involved cause aether is a hell of a drug!

[MikkoAkure]

Personally I just rp my Viera as always having been one, but I personally want eorzea to be a place that just goes 'you get the body you want if you're brave enough to make the changes'

The canon police aren't going to come out if you RP or write something that stretches the lore, but I think whether fantasia are canon is going to be a controversial subject that not everyone agrees with at the same level. The closest thing we have to an answer from the devs is "maybe, but it won't work that way" and I don't think it's ever going to come up in the story anyway, otherwise it already would have.

I also think it's not a great argument to point to party finder and then say "see, everything is canon!" because there's still a whole lot of stuff that has shades of being subjectively canon, like how we suddenly forget some of our abilities every expansion or when the devs make an "adjustment". Or every mount that didn't have flying before suddenly can fly through the power of friendship, or rocket thrusters in adamantoise's case. Or the convoluted explanations for other FF crossover event things showing up with no in-world context like "portals from another world" or "tales from the far east", and not even going to get into Monster Hunter, Yo-Kai Watch, Dragon Quest, or especially NieR. And then there's how the holiday event NPCs remember us every year but time stays the same and no one ages (that's a whole other can of worms, please no one start this again).

But in that case, your answer for 'how canon you want it to be' can't be 'not', because there's a bunch of things that are first divulged in Hildibrand but then become important later, like Godbert Manderville and the truth about Sil'dih.

Given his dad is just as wacky but actually involved in ul'dahn politics that's blatantly false, and multiple characters in it appear in more serious story lines but remember you from hilde quests

I'm still of the mindset that all of the Hildibrand questline is being told by Nashu, which is why everything is so ridiculous. She IS the one who breaks the 4th wall when it comes to what to expect next from the adventures. She's eccentric enough to where certain things make no sense, but DO make sense if you look at them from a different perspective.

I guess it's not the lore forums unless people go on a tangent based on a side comment someone made.

I'm pretty sure there was a writer who was asked if Hildibrand was canon and they're response was something along the lines of "what does your heart tell you?" but I can't find that interview.

Personally I'm more along Ryu's interpretation where the events happened, but are an "artistic retelling" much like how Savage isn't canon but is much more dramatic version of it.

There's some things that are brought into the rest of the game, and gentleman zombies are one thing but then you also have stuff like Hildibrand being launched at Dalamud and surviving his initial contact with it as well as the effects of the Calamity when it exploded with him on it. Or being able to summon Mandervilles with the power of dance. Or Yojimbo being "skinny Gilgamesh" and somehow becomes fat again when he decides to reveal himself.

[shadowclasper]

Or Yojimbo being "skinny Gilgamesh" and somehow becomes fat again when he decides to reveal himself.

Okay, so while I can agree with everything else you've said. This one actually does have an entirely canon explanation.

Glamours.

Glamours are straight up stated to be full transformations of appearance. It's why you can wear say, the chocobo head or literally any big and expansive armor set and then have it glamoured to 'the emperor's new X' or something else, and vice versa.