Magical change of appearance in the lore

[shadowclasper]

According to Koji Fox:

https://gamerescape.com/2014/10/25/f...st-london-qas/

According to what seemed to be an unofficial meetup with someone from the localization team:

https://nunhofthat.tumblr.com/post/1...ck-im-in-japan

Koji’s answer seems a bit tongue-in-cheek so I’m more inclined to go in line with the 2nd one.

Not everything in the game is canon. Hildebrand for example is “as canon as you want it to be” since much of it breaks character and defies the laws of physics and logic.

Given his dad is just as wacky but actually involved in ul'dahn politics that's blatantly false, and multiple characters in it appear in more serious story lines but remember you from hilde quests

Secondly, the localization team has significantly less power or clout about the narrative than Koji, however flippant (especially at something unofficial). Combine that with the fact the game has literally gone out of it's way to give an in universe explanation for quite literally every single game mechanic, including party finder as of 5.4-5.5, and I don't think anyone can argue in good faith that fantasias don't exist in universe.

At best it can be seen as an argument that ti undergo the massive restructuring if aether necessary to change species requires some significant changing in one's mentality.

Personally I just rp my Viera as always having been one, but I personally want eorzea to be a place that just goes 'you get the body you want if you're brave enough to make the changes'

[RyuDragnier]

Not everything in the game is canon. Hildebrand for example is “as canon as you want it to be” since much of it breaks character and defies the laws of physics and logic.

I'm still of the mindset that all of the Hildibrand questline is being told by Nashu, which is why everything is so ridiculous. She IS the one who breaks the 4th wall when it comes to what to expect next from the adventures. She's eccentric enough to where certain things make no sense, but DO make sense if you look at them from a different perspective.

Julyan being a horrible cook yet can make something dispelling zombie powder makes perfect sense when you remember that there are 2 crafting jobs that cook, Culinarian AND Alchemist. Julyan isn't a CUL, she's an ALC.
Hildibrand rising from the grave yet being found in the desert with "zombies" doesn't make sense. However, Hildibrand being presumed dead yet being found alive after Dalamud by a band of brigands, makes perfect sense.

You get the point, I feel Nashu is vastly exaggerating what happened, and we're seeing all of it from what SHE thinks happened.

[shadowclasper]

Don't we run into the zombies at least once outside Hildebrand quests? And I know zombies are a real mob because that's what screwed over sil'dih. That said, I don't think the core of your theory is entirely unsound. Plus when we run into the ishgaddian inspector he is at first terrified that the ridiculousness of Hildy will be following us so at least some level of him doing this crazy shit happens.

Also just gonna point out, quite a bit of what Hildebrand and other characters in there do is copied elsewhere in a less silky format

Dragoon quests
Warrior quests
Ninja quests

All of them have massive insane physics defying feats involved cause aether is a hell of a drug!

[MikkoAkure]

Personally I just rp my Viera as always having been one, but I personally want eorzea to be a place that just goes 'you get the body you want if you're brave enough to make the changes'

The canon police aren't going to come out if you RP or write something that stretches the lore, but I think whether fantasia are canon is going to be a controversial subject that not everyone agrees with at the same level. The closest thing we have to an answer from the devs is "maybe, but it won't work that way" and I don't think it's ever going to come up in the story anyway, otherwise it already would have.

I also think it's not a great argument to point to party finder and then say "see, everything is canon!" because there's still a whole lot of stuff that has shades of being subjectively canon, like how we suddenly forget some of our abilities every expansion or when the devs make an "adjustment". Or every mount that didn't have flying before suddenly can fly through the power of friendship, or rocket thrusters in adamantoise's case. Or the convoluted explanations for other FF crossover event things showing up with no in-world context like "portals from another world" or "tales from the far east", and not even going to get into Monster Hunter, Yo-Kai Watch, Dragon Quest, or especially NieR. And then there's how the holiday event NPCs remember us every year but time stays the same and no one ages (that's a whole other can of worms, please no one start this again).

But in that case, your answer for 'how canon you want it to be' can't be 'not', because there's a bunch of things that are first divulged in Hildibrand but then become important later, like Godbert Manderville and the truth about Sil'dih.

Given his dad is just as wacky but actually involved in ul'dahn politics that's blatantly false, and multiple characters in it appear in more serious story lines but remember you from hilde quests

I'm still of the mindset that all of the Hildibrand questline is being told by Nashu, which is why everything is so ridiculous. She IS the one who breaks the 4th wall when it comes to what to expect next from the adventures. She's eccentric enough to where certain things make no sense, but DO make sense if you look at them from a different perspective.

I guess it's not the lore forums unless people go on a tangent based on a side comment someone made.

I'm pretty sure there was a writer who was asked if Hildibrand was canon and they're response was something along the lines of "what does your heart tell you?" but I can't find that interview.

Personally I'm more along Ryu's interpretation where the events happened, but are an "artistic retelling" much like how Savage isn't canon but is much more dramatic version of it.

There's some things that are brought into the rest of the game, and gentleman zombies are one thing but then you also have stuff like Hildibrand being launched at Dalamud and surviving his initial contact with it as well as the effects of the Calamity when it exploded with him on it. Or being able to summon Mandervilles with the power of dance. Or Yojimbo being "skinny Gilgamesh" and somehow becomes fat again when he decides to reveal himself.

[shadowclasper]

Or Yojimbo being "skinny Gilgamesh" and somehow becomes fat again when he decides to reveal himself.

Okay, so while I can agree with everything else you've said. This one actually does have an entirely canon explanation.

Glamours.

Glamours are straight up stated to be full transformations of appearance. It's why you can wear say, the chocobo head or literally any big and expansive armor set and then have it glamoured to 'the emperor's new X' or something else, and vice versa.

[Cleretic]

Also, just remembering something on this thread's subject, a recent reveal from Secret Best Part Of 6.4: Plastic surgery exists in-game, and is apparently very accurate, given the only thing that tipped people off was eye color!

That's not exactly gonna work for changing race, but it's still further than you probably expect from the setting.

[Brightamethyst]

I'm still of the mindset that all of the Hildibrand questline is being told by Nashu, which is why everything is so ridiculous. She IS the one who breaks the 4th wall when it comes to what to expect next from the adventures. She's eccentric enough to where certain things make no sense, but DO make sense if you look at them from a different perspective.

Julyan being a horrible cook yet can make something dispelling zombie powder makes perfect sense when you remember that there are 2 crafting jobs that cook, Culinarian AND Alchemist. Julyan isn't a CUL, she's an ALC.
Hildibrand rising from the grave yet being found in the desert with "zombies" doesn't make sense. However, Hildibrand being presumed dead yet being found alive after Dalamud by a band of brigands, makes perfect sense.

You get the point, I feel Nashu is vastly exaggerating what happened, and we're seeing all of it from what SHE thinks happened.

That's how I feel about it too. That the events of the Hildibrand story actually happened, but we're seeing an exaggerated, stylized version of it (similar to Wandering Minstrel EXs.)

[SannaR]

Okay, so while I can agree with everything else you've said. This one actually does have an entirely canon explanation.

Glamours.

Glamours are straight up stated to be full transformations of appearance. It's why you can wear say, the chocobo head or literally any big and expansive armor set and then have it glamoured to 'the emperor's new X' or something else, and vice versa.

Heck glamor prisms were used to hide Rhalgr's Reach for so long and was used into tricking Fordola and the troops stationed at where the Anata tribal quests are at. As the Ala Mhigan flag that we "unfurl" is just a glamor. Also isn't there a comment about part of the Blitzen mount we got from the most recent Starlight Celebration being a glamor as well?

[shadowclasper]

Also, just remembering something on this thread's subject, a recent reveal from Secret Best Part Of 6.4: Plastic surgery exists in-game, and is apparently very accurate, given the only thing that tipped people off was eye color!

That's not exactly gonna work for changing race, but it's still further than you probably expect from the setting.

Oh heck! you're not wrong my man.

Heck glamor prisms were used to hide Rhalgr's Reach for so long and was used into tricking Fordola and the troops stationed at where the Anata tribal quests are at. As the Ala Mhigan flag that we "unfurl" is just a glamor. Also isn't there a comment about part of the Blitzen mount we got from the most recent Starlight Celebration being a glamor as well?

yep, glamours cover a plethora of sins, but the fantasia is implied to be significantly different. If I honestly had to guess it's probably something that gives you the courage to actually go through massive changes and warp yourself through the aethyrite systems, since the way it functions is entirely based on one's sense of both possessions and self identity. You get condensed down into aether with all your objects, thrown to another aetheryte, and then recondense. Your possessions come with you because you think they should and consider them effectively, part of you to some extent. You come out the shape you're supposed too because you think you should be that shape.

I imagine that Fantasia is basically working on those same principles. "Here take this and it'll give you the courage to actually envision your true self hard enough that when you pop out of the aethyrite the fear won't keep you from expressing it that way". That effectively avoids almost all criminal actions involving it because, hey, you gotta -really- fucking- believe in it as yourself, it's not enough to just want to be that shape.

[Cleretic]

Oh heck! you're not wrong my man.

Woman, but I admit with the gatherer headpiece on the character preview it's hard to tell!

But yeah, I thought that was a really good thing to bring up, because the game's general level of civilization and tech (wavering somewhere between 'roughly colonial' to 'World War 1 with anime stylization' depending on where and when you look) doesn't really suggest 'very high-quality plastic surgery' is on the table.