Another Pal an War buff patch, another middle finger to Drks

[JPMJ]

These are separate issues, though.

If you have an average ppgcd of 400, a 1000p GCD is identical to a 600p oGCD. Whether it's a GCD or not isn't actually changing the burst profile except insofar as nerfing that particular action if you haven't compensated it for becoming a GCD (instead of an oGCD).

Similarly, you can move part of Shadowbringer's relative potency elsewhere --thereby reducing DRK's emphasis on the 2-minute burst, and thereby dependence upon raid buffs-- without turning it into a GCD or removing a charge, etc., etc.


Just giving Shadowbringers the standard mana cost (3000) would reduce the attacks to be woven into DRK's 2-minute burst by 2 and the potency concentrated within that 2-minute burst by 920, making them less dependent on raid buffs. Increase active MP generation via Syphon/CnS/etc. by (slightly over) 3000 per minute and that's compensated for, but with a lesser gap between rDPS and aDPS.

Voila. That already has a greater effect on deemphasizing DRK's fixation on/around the 2-minute burst than having only a single charge of Shadowbringers or turning it into a single GCD "finisher", all without reducing the dungeon QoL/fluidity of the second charge.

I mentioned Shadowbringer as an example of something that can be improved right now, but if the current style is not changed in 7.0, it will be a repeat of 6.x.
I know that aDPS and rDPS are important, but as a PS user, it is also important to have a game experience that is fun to play and exhilarating to be able to do a lot of damage with a single shot.
This is the kind of improvement I hope for in 7.0

[Shurrikhan]

I mentioned Shadowbringer as an example of something that can be improved right now, but if the current style is not changed in 7.0, it will be a repeat of 6.x.
I know that aDPS and rDPS are important, but as a PS user, it is also important to have a game experience that is fun to play and exhilarating to be able to do a lot of damage with a single shot.
This is the kind of improvement I hope for in 7.0

Again, though, that has nothing to do with the job's burstiness (portion of potency which can fall within the 2-minute raidbuffs), and solely to do with whether you like your "big boom move" to be on or off the GCD.

Personally, I don't need DRK to have yet another analog to PLD and WAR by turning Shadowbringer into a copy of Confiteor / Primal Rend.

I'm fine with Shadowbringer being an oGCD. I am also fine with it being usable once per minute / twice per two minutes, instead of only the once per 2 minutes. I don't need it to be 1200 potency 2-minute oGCD, nor a 1600-potency 2-minute GCD, nor a 1200-potency Primal Darkrend GCD after each Delirium or a Goring Dark GCD on a 1-minute CD.

If we're to diversify it... let's at least do so in a way that doesn't further copy WAR/PLD.

[RyuDragnier]

Again, though, that has nothing to do with the job's burstiness (portion of potency which can fall within the 2-minute raidbuffs), and solely to do with whether you like your "big boom move" to be on or off the GCD.

Personally, I don't need DRK to have yet another analog to PLD and WAR by turning Shadowbringer into a copy of Confiteor / Primal Rend.

I'm fine with Shadowbringer being an oGCD. I am also fine with it being usable once per minute / twice per two minutes, instead of only the once per 2 minutes. I don't need it to be 1200 potency 2-minute oGCD, nor a 1600-potency 2-minute GCD, nor a 1200-potency Primal Darkrend GCD after each Delirium or a Goring Dark GCD on a 1-minute CD.

If we're to diversify it... let's at least do so in a way that doesn't further copy WAR/PLD.

GNB: "Am I a joke to you!?"

But on a serious note, Shadowbringer is an incredibly forgettable oGCD right now. It does not link to anything in the kit, it merely exists. It's the equivalent of Blasting Zone and Upheaval right now, incredibly forgettable moves you just press and do nothing else with. It's a completely lackluster ability with no flavor to it, just another bland "use and forget" skill. I don't see what the issue is making it actually work with the kit instead of being that forgettable. There are even ways to make it unique, such as making it eat 30s of Darkside duration, forcing a use of Edge to get back the 30s you just lost.

[Shurrikhan]

GNB: "Am I a joke to you!?"

I was assuming Shadowbringer wasn't becoming a DoT, non-difference though that is in sustained single-target combat. Else, DRK is the only one without a per-60s-GCD big hit, opposite Sonic Break, Goring Blade, and Primal Rend.

Shadowbringer is an incredibly forgettable oGCD right now. It does not link to anything in the kit, it merely exists. It's the equivalent of Blasting Zone and Upheaval right now, incredibly forgettable moves you just press and do nothing else with. It's a completely lackluster ability with no flavor to it, just another bland "use and forget" skill. I don't see what the issue is making it actually work with the kit instead of being that forgettable.

I've got no problem with making it more mechanically demanding to optimize. I just don't see, as suggested earlier, locking it behind Delirium a la Primal Rend as making any positive difference in that regard. That just makes it less fluid and even more WAR-like.

There are even ways to make it unique, such as making it eat 30s of Darkside duration, forcing a use of Edge to get back the 30s you just lost.

But what does that actually do in practice?



You drop 4 Edges into the opener anyways. The only change this would make is that after your 4th and 6th GCDs, you'd use Edge before Shadowbringer instead of Shadowbringer before Edge. You swap the order of oGCDs, which you then still use in the exact same GCD-gaps.

...That's it. That's literally it. That's the entire process of optimization. The result is that Shadowbringer ends up a little less intuitive, but its ceiling won't even have budged.

[JPMJ]

Again, though, that has nothing to do with the job's burstiness (portion of potency which can fall within the 2-minute raidbuffs), and solely to do with whether you like your "big boom move" to be on or off the GCD.

Personally, I don't need DRK to have yet another analog to PLD and WAR by turning Shadowbringer into a copy of Confiteor / Primal Rend.

I'm fine with Shadowbringer being an oGCD. I am also fine with it being usable once per minute / twice per two minutes, instead of only the once per 2 minutes. I don't need it to be 1200 potency 2-minute oGCD, nor a 1600-potency 2-minute GCD, nor a 1200-potency Primal Darkrend GCD after each Delirium or a Goring Dark GCD on a 1-minute CD.

If we're to diversify it... let's at least do so in a way that doesn't further copy WAR/PLD.

Again, Shadowbringer is just an example of an improvement that can be made right now.
I don't care if you add a new skill or change an existing skill, but I'm asking you to rebalance the GCD and oGCD in 7.0 and add a finisher to the dark knight in the process.

If you don't want to copy warriors and paladins, I suggest you change Blood Delirium first.
It could be a more powerful effect that improves on the old DA, or it could be a new skill activation condition.

There are many jobs, so it is inevitable that there are similar styles, but I would like you to keep the image of the weapon in mind.
It is very unnatural for a large sword to have an attack style like a light weapon, so I would like it to have a heavy attack style like a heavy weapon.

No matter how good the DPS is, if it is unnatural or detracts from the fun of the game, it is meaningless.
I hope they will pay more attention to these things.

[Zairava]

Again, Shadowbringer is just an example of an improvement that can be made right now.
I don't care if you add a new skill or change an existing skill, but I'm asking you to rebalance the GCD and oGCD in 7.0 and add a finisher to the dark knight in the process.

If you don't want to copy warriors and paladins, I suggest you change Blood Delirium first.
It could be a more powerful effect that improves on the old DA, or it could be a new skill activation condition.

There are many jobs, so it is inevitable that there are similar styles, but I would like you to keep the image of the weapon in mind.
It is very unnatural for a large sword to have an attack style like a light weapon, so I would like it to have a heavy attack style like a heavy weapon.

No matter how good the DPS is, if it is unnatural or detracts from the fun of the game, it is meaningless.
I hope they will pay more attention to these things.

Thankfully, they have a few abilities for such that they removed in the past...

Monk is really my only consolation that they will do such a thing, it would be nice. If they add new or modify existing abilities then I do hope they make them attacks feel meatier to execute again

[JPMJ]

GNB: "Am I a joke to you!?"

But on a serious note, Shadowbringer is an incredibly forgettable oGCD right now. It does not link to anything in the kit, it merely exists. It's the equivalent of Blasting Zone and Upheaval right now, incredibly forgettable moves you just press and do nothing else with. It's a completely lackluster ability with no flavor to it, just another bland "use and forget" skill. I don't see what the issue is making it actually work with the kit instead of being that forgettable. There are even ways to make it unique, such as making it eat 30s of Darkside duration, forcing a use of Edge to get back the 30s you just lost.

I understand that Shadowbringer is a powerful skill, but it's just a push of a button, and the damage displayed is not as flashy as other tank finishers.

I feel it's too much of a disappointment for a skill that bears the name "Shadowbringer".
In Japanese, the 5.0 title, weapon, and skills are all the same, and many JP users are very protective of them

That's why I want them to have mechanics and be able to use it as a finisher

[JPMJ]

Thankfully, they have a few abilities for such that they removed in the past...

Monk is really my only consolation that will do such a thing, it would be nice. If they add new or modify existing abilities then I do hope they make them attacks feel meatier to execute again

That was a very nice change!
I hope the dark knight will have more skills like the Monk's Masterful Blitz

[Renathras]

Looking through DRK, I never realized how few GCDs it has. Setting aside the AOE rotation, it has...four? The 1-2-3 combo, Unmend for extended disengages, and Bloodspiller every ~3 1-2-3 combos via Blood Gauge. I guess it just never clicked to me playing with it or looking at it.

But the thing is, that's kind of cool. It makes their burst hectic, but it's VERY distinct from the other Tanks, kinda like comparing DRG's rigid, almost "blocky" rotation, with NIN's high speed one that has a super busy burst window. In fact, that's a pretty good comparison of PLD or GNB to DRK, actually.

I've never been a fan of DRK's aesthetic, but I do think that distinction in mechanics is not a bad thing. People complain all the time how DRK is basically a WAR clone, but most of the proposed changes for DRK are "make it more like WAR", which begs the question of how people don't understand - that's how it became a WAR-ish clone (and would be even more of one) in the first place.

It's kind of a "Do you want Skynet? Because this is how you get Skynet!" thing.

.

EDIT: Oh, one thing.

The big problem with big attacks crammed into burst is that they end up with the "crit/direct hit" feast or famine. Yeah, it plays into the 2 min burst, but if you're a GNB and your Double Down doesn't crit/direct hit, you're now hopelessly behind in damage for that encounter vs a GNB who DID get lucky and got theirs to crit + direct hit.

I think the game needs less of that, not more of that.

[Oizen]

Honestly I don't mind the oGCD focus and I think any version of DRK should have a lot of oGCDs present.
The existence of Edge/Flood is what made me like the job originally, having an attack you can throw out whenever you want really.

I just think it needs more to fill in the gaps, and more to do as a whole outside of the burst window. I also think the job needs to play around with the idea of skills lowering the CDs of other oGCDs more. Like imagine if Edge/flood reduced Shadowbringer's CD or something. I think the idea of an heavy oGCD centric tank could work, it just needs more thought to it.

I don't even hate the idea of Enhanced Unmend, the problem is with EW design it would basically have to give you a full charge of plunge for free to be worth using, we never disconnect from the boss anymore, let alone for so long that using Unmend 5 times is optimal.