When is SCH’s turn?

[Deceptus]

So in 7.0 we can expect huge Astrologian and Dragoon reworks. We got a paladin rework mid expansion. A summoner rewor, a mini NIN rework, a monk rework. Now when is SCH’s turn? This job has been in shambles for a long time. Don’t get me wrong. It’s playable and can clear content and all that.

But, the job goes against itself in many ways. Firstly with dissipation locking you out of your faery and faery gauge for 30 seconds. Not being able to control who your faery cast embrace on. Selene has been nuked as well.

All I wanna know SE is when is SCH’s turn for a major rework? Yoshi P even said during Endwalkers job actions video that they have no idea what to do with scholar now. If they can say this then maybe it’s time to rework the job.

What does my fellow warriors of light think? Especially my other scholar mains out there.

SCH's are still actively being punished from the perception that in 2.0 they were "overpowered" when they simply had a complete kit at that time. Most healers now, have all the tools that SCH's had then (a mix of barrier and regen).

It's ridiculous.

Combined with the fact that in the 6.0 pre patch live letter the devs literally said (paraphrasing) "We don't know how to improve scholar anymore / we don't know what to do with them"

SCH died in my eyes when SE removed the player's ability to micro manage the fairy's own GCD.

Now it just feels like an in-cohesive box of disjointed and disorganised systems all lumped in together. I'd be well up for an overhaul at this stage.

Kardia is essentially our old Embrace macros that they took away from SCH.

[Teno]

Wall of text

Nice, 4 people dislike sage in pvp. Give that version to the other thousands liking it (who most likely imagined the job playing like that when it was first revealed).

[Sebazy]

…..so caps can decide if ppl are upset or not?

Yep /10char

[Osmond]

Yep /10char

So let me figure this out. On the internet, where no one can tell if a person is angry or not. Big caps that’s more than 10 letters is considered such. Even though it can mean the opposite, but in your perception, it considered so, is that what you’re telling me?

[Sebazy]

Man, my comment just got ppl to snap lmao lololololol.

So let me figure this out. On the internet, where no one can tell if a person is angry or not. Big caps that’s more than 10 letters is considered such. Even though it can mean the opposite, but in your perception, it considered so, is that what you’re telling me?

Yep /10char

[Icecylee]

So let me figure this out. On the internet, where no one can tell if a person is angry or not. Big caps that’s more than 10 letters is considered such. Even though it can mean the opposite, but in your perception, it considered so, is that what you’re telling me?

Have you communicated with... *anyone* via text since 1980? All caps has been synonymous with SHOUTING / extreme, forceful emphasis for several decades now, this is not new and shouldn't be surprising.

[Renathras]

Fulminating/GrimGale - A lot of people like SGE's Addersgall vs SCH's Aetherflow BECAUSE they don't feel penalized for using the heals and, in fact, feel encouraged to do it. Moreover, based on the CDs of their abilities, they can get useful/benefit from using three per minute just from 2x Keracholes and 1x Taurochole, since mitigation is always useful (not always NECESSARY, but always USEFUL).

300 potency per minute (+150 from Dissipation) is extremely lackluster, as people point out all the time, yet (generally the same) people insist that this is entirely necessary for SCH to not feel bad, despite most people saying SGE's system feels far better. The simpler solution would be for SCH to have useful AF dumps that aren't damage. One reason I think CD-less Excog is a good choice is that it can be used before damage up to 45 seconds away usefully. Alternatively, having a pure barrier (no heal, something like Divine Benison) spender serves a similar function as using it on the (Main) Tank will also always be useful, and 2x Soils per minute would, like Kerachole, always be useful. At that point, there's no need for an "AF dump" anymore since we already have it between 2x Soils per minute and 1+ Excog or "Benison". Further, overcapping AF (during the brief time that Energy Drain was removed in ShB) wasn't some horrible thing, it just "felt bad". But now, USING Soil, Indom, Lustrate, or Excog "feel bad", and that seems FAR WORSE than just "Oh, I only used 2 Soils this 1 min so I 'feel bad' that I'm 'wasting' one AF by not using it."

It's not god-tier, big brain.

Also, what you said before, Fulminating, about "Anti synergies are engaging-interesting design.":

No, anti-synergies CAN BE engaging or interesting designs. They can ALSO be unengaging, uninteresting, boring, clunky, convoluted, and/or terrible designs.

When Fey Blessing pulled from Faerie Gauge, I thought this was a good design. "Use this resource on single target or on AOE", the only thing they needed to do was remove the 60 sec (or 30 sec?) CD on Blessing so you COULD use it more than once in a row. It already used 30 gauge, so that should have been the limiting factor. (I have the opposite issue with PLD Cover where it has a gauge cost AND CD when the CD is already limiting enough so it doesn't need the gauge cost). My hope with 6.0 was that they'd remove the CD from Blessing...instead they removed the Gauge cost making Gauge almost entirely meaningless.

RDM has an anti-synergy in that using Vercure doesn't generate Mana. It's a DPS loss to use it. But you CAN still use it in situations where you think it's needed, and it has a niche use to squeeze out a bit more DPS on reopeners by casting it when a boss is untargetable so you can use the Dualcast proc as soon as the boss or adds appear.

Some forms of anti-synergy CAN be good.

Most of SCH's are not.

Many of them weren't well thought out and were more accidents than intent. Energy Drain itself originated as a SMN ability that SCH just kind of inherited, but wasn't useful to its design since it was using AF in ARR on Lustrates to get through Cleric Stance's otherwise healing debuff, or for the MP regeneration component. Both of those other effects have been removed from the game, but ED lingers (by outraged demand made in ShB when it was removed). Dissipation has NEVER been a good ability. The initial incarnation you had to manually resummon Eos/Selene after it expired! It was a horribly thought out ability from an expansion of horribly thought out Healer abilities and changes, such as the SB Lilies of disaster. That it has developed some niche optimization use by hardcore tryhards doesn't change the fact it was NEVER a good ability and still isn't.

"Since it's ~1/3 of a broil you can use it to make up for a necessary gcd heal"? If you'd use that AF on one of your oGCD AF heals, you probably wouldn't need to cast said GCD heal in the first place. The only exception is if you have a specific plan that requires a GCD Spredlo, but even in that case, a Soil might have achived the same net result by merely reducing the damage in the first place (and healing from it).

That's the problem with Energy Drain. It struggles to defend its own existence and can only do so if you ignore that the AF heals exist.

In the survey, the biggest single change requested for SCH by players after "more damage buttons" was to decouple Energy Drain from AF.

Nice, 4 people dislike sage in pvp. Give that version to the other thousands liking it (who most likely imagined the job playing like that when it was first revealed).

At least get the argument right, huh?

I didn't say that would be bad - I've held since the start that SGE should be FFXIV's Discipline Priest/Chloromancer - I'm saying making SCHOLAR more LIKE THAT is something that is a pretty bad idea.

Sure, make SGE into a DPS rotation healer. Is anyone really arguing against that?

Have you communicated with... *anyone* via text since 1980? All caps has been synonymous with SHOUTING / extreme, forceful emphasis for several decades now, this is not new and shouldn't be surprising.

This really depends on the person.

I use all caps for emphasis, not shouting, specifically if the medium doesn't have accessible (or easily accessible) bold, underline, or italics, or if those options are not very distinct in the medium. For example, just using italics here is sometimes not very noticeable depending on the word and font/resolution, so using bold or underline or CAPITALIZED ITALICS may work as an alternative for emphasis.

ALL CAPS DOES NOT INHERENTLY MEAN "shouting".

[fulminating]

I have heard much more mixed things about addersgall than you then. I don’t think it’s necessary to make scholar more similar to sage when more effort could be put into differentiating them. If overcapping annoys you, scholar starts in limsa. If it doesn’t, sage starts in limsa.

Anti synergies: blah blah blahblahblah something about meaningful choices and it not really being as fun when all the wrinkles are ironed out. Dunno, it’s part of why I find blue mage fun. Something that can be made to work even though it only sort of fits properly. Kind of like how you could kite carbuncle in prepull to delay devotion.

If you’ve used indom and fey blessing recently then succour, et succour or spreadlo would be the next best option assuming imminent damage. If your tank is made of wet tissues then big adlo and some enforced mitigation could be a good way to deal with it. If there’s an effect on the upcoming raidwide, why not try and negate it with shields and save whispering dawn. And yes, if you know nowt happens for the next little while, why not get rid of the faerie and contribute a little more?

ALL CAPS DOES NOT INHERENTLY MEAN "shouting".

Why did you write it so loudly?

[VictorSpoils]

Regarding Energy Drain, I often read two things:

1. The choice of using AF for Healing or Damage makes the gameplay interesting, and offers a layer of optimization that gives Scholar a distinct identity amongst the healers.

2. Losing 300 potency a minute is such a minuscule difference that really, it doesn't matter.

So which one is it? If it's such a minimal difference and 300 potency is such an unimportant gain, surely it wouldn't matter wether we removed the skill at all, at least it terms of trading healing for damage.

The point of Energy drain had always been as an AF dump, to be used at the end of Aetherflow's cooldown so that the charges are not overriden if any of them remain. To get some value out of the healing we didn't need to use in that 1 minute cycle.

But why does it have to be a trade for damage. Why can it just be MP. We all understand that damage has better value than healing, so finding the rare occasions where AF for healing would be a DPS gain, like Sacred Soil is already an effective trade, between needing to use a GCD heal tool and casting another Broil.

I'm not advocating for the removal of Energy Drain as an AF dump tool, but rather I'd like it to actually be an AF dump as it is clearly intended, rather than damage lost whenever we use Indomitabily, Sacred Soil, Lustrate or Excog.

Wouldn't mind if they just doubled ED's potency, so three are equal to two Broils instead of one. They can remove the pointless self-heal too if they want.

the devs literally said (paraphrasing)

[Renathras]

Why did you write it so loudly?

I find irony humorous. It's why I put "shouting" in lowercase.

.

As to the rest: As I pointed out, there are cases of anti-synergy or choice that I like. I like Clemency on PLD and Vercure on RDM. The Dualcast part of RDM aside, both of these abilities give the player a choice - damage or healing. That choice can be meaningful depending on the situation and the content. It's relevant. There's a clear cost and benefit, and despite min-maxers saying otherwise, there's not always a "right" answer, as it depends on the situation and group.

Using Clemency, though, doesn't lock you out of your melee combo or (anymore) Requiescat damage. Using Vercure doesn't prevent casting Thunder/Aero for 30 seconds. These abilities are trade-offs with clear cost-benefit analyses, but they don't directly war with and lock out other parts of the kits. Few Jobs actually do that, as far as I can tell, and none so bad as SCH.

There's a point where it goes from "meaningful choices" to "fighting clunk".

The former is good game design, the latter is not.