Underperfoming vs median vs overperforming?

[DPZ2]

Nobody expects perfection in normal mode, but imo underperforming is when you can't be bothered to do the bare minimum and are actually a liability to the rest of the party.

I haven't encountered such players in any instance I've played since I started 8+ years ago. Either I've been lucky or you've been extremely unlucky.

By the way, the OP clarified the instances they wanted to discuss:

Also quick edit, I'm referring only to normal trials/raids/etc, not EX or savage or ultimate where min/max is probably the norm ^^

[Allegor]

I haven't encountered such players in any instance I've played since I started 8+ years ago. Either I've been lucky or you've been extremely unlucky.

By the way, the OP clarified the instances they wanted to discuss:

There's PLENTY of players like that, specially on dungeons and alliance raids. I'll take a wild guess that you either just don't notice or play almost exclusively with friends.

[Jojoya]

I haven't encountered such players in any instance I've played since I started 8+ years ago. Either I've been lucky or you've been extremely unlucky.

They do exist but they're not that common in normal duties. I'd agree with Allegor that that you'll find them a lot in the Alliance raids where a lack of contribution is more easily hidden.

[Alaray]

In normal stuff, I don't really care how people play to be honest. Like, naturally I have things I prefer (full pulling things, using cooldowns, using AoE etc...) but I understand that like... people are people, which means you might get someone who's never played too much of a MMO before, or games at all, and needs to take things slower to get the hang of them. You might get someone who's newer to XIV and doesn't really know how to accomplish good damage, or maybe has a flawed understanding of when to AoE/When not to (like, someone might think it's only valuable to start AoE when there's four things, versus 3, etc... 'cuz I'd figure most people don't really do the math on the abilities as it's not really... fun for most to do that before just experiencing things and the game doesn't really have feedback to showcase "Oh, on this amount of targets you did less damage, but when you tried the other idea you did better" it's something you won't really notice unless you're more in tune with things. Plus, sometimes, you never really know - the tank who's single pulling, struggling and making tons of errors? Could like, literally be a seven year old. If I notice that kind of struggling I usually, -very- politely offer some tips and see if they're interested in hearing them (and usually they are, and then thankful for the help).

I'll always have, again, pet peeves and preferences but like... I'm not gonna care to the point of being rude in chat or something, since that's just being an asshole. If I feel like someone might need some knowledge in order to have success in the instance, then I just, again, very politely offer - but I'm never genuinely mad, or genuinely frustrated. Hell, sometimes the worse... like, quality? I guess? Runs are more fun, pending on which instance and what's going on. And most people I ever offered some information for have been polite about it - either excited someone's willing to help them out, or just a decline and... yeah, I don't care to push it if someone declines. Can't say I'd understand why, but like, pushing it is just going to make a slow instance into a... miserable chat-shout-fest that people like to showcase from time to time.

I think I've only dealt with one person who was genuinely rude to my pointing something out to them? But that was in an extreme, and was due to them not actually knowing a safe spot (and thus, getting people killed) for a mechanic and I was just trying to explain that was the issue. But I mean, once it was clear they did not care, I just... y'know, left. No point in staying.

And, I mean, if you're in an instance you cannot stand or feel is too... slow or w/e, just leave instead if you don't have the energy to be polite or the care to explain something to someone having a difficult time grasping stuff. Better to leave so you're no longer having a bad time, maybe requeue for something better, than to cause the most worthless argument because abrasiveness kickstarts defensiveness.

In harder content, I do have higher expectations pending on goal of the Party Finder. But I kinda got the info this is specifically regarding normal-style content.

And, I mean, everyone sucked at anything they're good at now at some point. For how many times someone might roll their eyes as their group wipes because of someone messing something simple up, most of the time, you were also that person at some point.

+ when it comes to EX/Savage etc... there is a large degree of "Everyone starts somewhere" - but that'll also go into the PF description being the largest set for what expectations I have entering one. If it's fresh prog, or new players and progression etc... like, you really should go into that with the expectation of: We are wiping a lot. If a few wipes early on get to you, don't join those or re-assess your expectations for those groups specifically.

[Erinellza]

In my opinion, anyone who dies to the same boss mechanic several times is underperforming. It's okay to die to mechanics every once in a while (especially in new content), it happens to all of us. BUT if you don't even try to learn from your mistakes and you need a rez every minute while you constantly have the death debuff during the whole fight, then you are underperforming. To me, constantly being dead is worse than an imperfect rotation. Sorry not sorry.

[DixieBellOCE]

Reading through many threads, I'm genuinely wondering what people here on the forums (acknowledging that forum goers are already far more invested in playing well than probably the majority of the general population), consider 'underperforming', be it as a tank/heal/or dps?

I often get the impression some find 'median' play, or people who know the basics and play within the median, to be 'underperforming'. Is there any consensus besides acknowledging things like ice mages and cure 3 spam/no dps heals are underperforming?

Also quick edit, I'm referring only to normal trials/raids/etc, not EX or savage or ultimate where min/max is probably the norm ^^

As somebody who does savage and ultimate:

Underperfoming: Being completely ignorant of the 'Two Minute Meta' and how your job rotation lines up, and adversely affects other players when you do not play correctly, and not putting in any effort to actually learn fight mechanics.

Median: The average person who can perform the most basic GCD rotation in the correct order while having general knowledge of fights.

High End: Somebody who can perform a near perfect rotation while having a good understanding of boss mechanics and how jobs/buffs interact with eachother.

Overperforming: Min-Maxing every little detail out of a fight, from Pre-Casting mitigations so that they snapshot on the last second of a boss cast and knowing every single mechanic and how they work.

Sadly i would say that ~70% of the player base fall into what i consider the 'Underperforming' section, as the game actively does its best to not present you with even the mildest challenge that requires you to get better to progress.

[miraidensetsu]

In the way you worded, or your colleagues is overperforming or is underperforming. The 'Two Minute Meta' is something that only people who is min-maxing cares about.

But if you apply those criteria to any normal duty, that can be kind of... Problematic. Min-maxing some fight takes time, but normal trials are normaly just once-and-done duties. Just knowing some basic mechanics and its rotation is already enough to clear those, no? Don't you think that you're asking too much for normal content?

But if you switch to EX raids, savages or ultimates/unreals, this time you're right. But the topic is about normal content.

[Colt47]

Reading through many threads, I'm genuinely wondering what people here on the forums (acknowledging that forum goers are already far more invested in playing well than probably the majority of the general population), consider 'underperforming', be it as a tank/heal/or dps?

I often get the impression some find 'median' play, or people who know the basics and play within the median, to be 'underperforming'. Is there any consensus besides acknowledging things like ice mages and cure 3 spam/no dps heals are underperforming?

Also quick edit, I'm referring only to normal trials/raids/etc, not EX or savage or ultimate where min/max is probably the norm ^^

It's a lot easier to see what underperforming is at the beginning of the expansion, because it puts everyone on the same level and no one is broken up yet by gear level. Things get incredibly silly and broken once they drop savage and people get the amazing ten point higher gear that increases their numbers by about 20% over what people in standard gear can do. Underperforming is generally missing out on using abilities when someone needs to or should use them, such as feint to reduce damage from a raid wide or a tank not using reprisal.

Also, to be clear here there is no difference between savage / EX and normal mode in terms of performing. There are people who do not touch savage at all who are just as good as savage players are at their job, the only difference is that they haven't learned the crazy dance moves and what not people in savage have had to, and also likely have a happier and much more fulfilling life giving how awful a social experience it can be doing high end content in this game.

If anything, getting higher tier gear than needed for content makes people worse at the game since as soon as someone can survive some big hit without dying the game immediately favors raw damage. So this results in tanks not using as much mitigation, dps standing in attacks that normally should be avoided, healers dpsing instead of healing because raw overstats make up for it, and so on.

[Miyumi_Nara]

Under performing would be failing to meet a dps check in the content your doing it in. underperforming is relative to the content you are playing.
I believe there is no such thing as over performing and heres why. We all have to run dungeons at some point in the game and over and over for our tomes for gear progression. Now square enix has been and always will make some of the tome gear BIS for there gear cycles which is every 2 patch cycles. Where am i going with this? Ultimate players have to farm casual dungeons of course they are going to blaze through the content.

since they are forced to do such this means dungeons were built with everybody in mind. So you cant over perform ina dungeon because your top end players have to do the dungeons anyways

People can get angry at me for saying this all they want but over performing isn't a thing

[KeshLives]

acknowledging that forum goers are already far more invested in playing well than

Keep in mind that most forum goers are far more invested in complaining than much of anything else. The audience you're talking about (the normal mode/casual players) are out there playing, not worrying about their level of play. That's purely a forum thing, outside of savage/extreme/etc circles.

Usually anyone complaining about normal mode/casual play is wanting to assert their own superiority in some way, which, of course, looks pretty dumb when you realize they're doing it at that level...

EDIT: Of course I saw up the thread, a well known "I am superior to all of you" poster had to have his say. I only have him NOT on ignore for just so I can laugh at how pathetic he is...