On Themis [6.4 SPOILER]

[Turnintino]

The funny thing about the Mommy Hydaelyn idea is that I didn't feel Venat's characterization in the Elpis storyline really even gave us "mother". More like "playful, quirky aunt". Caring and supportive, absolutely, but I don't know if I'd say she seemed particularly parental, and nor did it seem to me that any of the other characters regarded her as such, though they certainly had incredible respect for her. Like the Azem that succeeded her, at least Emet and Hyth seem to think she's a little too whimsical for "mom friend" status lol.

And in a vacuum, that's completely innocuous; it still makes for a likeable character, if bland (and so is the alternative -- I'm not really arguing otherwise). Also, obviously, like Emet, she's perfectly capable of evolving over the years, and certainly she would've been changed by the transformation into Hydaelyn. And as Cleretic says, we aren't necessarily shown the full range of her character, under the unusual circumstances that we interact with her. But I think this discussion is interesting precisely because, to me, Venat was missing that parental through-line, one of the few things we previously knew about Hydaelyn, and it doesn't sound like that was everyone else's read.

Like ShB-Hythlodaeus versus his EW counterpart, Hydaelyn and Venat could have been completely different characters for all they resembled one another, imo. (The same could be said of Themis/Elidibus, I guess, but that identity crisis is built into his characterization in a way that reads as way more intentional to me.)

On the other hand, maybe that's meant to be the takeaway? That she (and Emet) is and was more than just our limited experience with her. Your mom is more than just your mom, etc.

One thing's for sure, though, and that's that Elpis's eyes were bigger than its stomach. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cleretic]

Like ShB-Hythlodaeus versus his EW counterpart, Hydaelyn and Venat could have been completely different characters for all they resembled one another, imo. (The same could be said of Themis/Elidibus, I guess, but that identity crisis is built into his characterization in a way that reads as way more intentional to me.)

On the other hand, maybe that's meant to be the takeaway? That she (and Emet) is and was more than just our limited experience with her. Your mom is more than just your mom, etc.

I mean, on top of that valid point of different contexts and experiences, there's twelve thousand years and some pretty significant events between Venat in Elpis and Hydaelyn in the present day. You can expect some major differences there, even if it's still clearly the same person beneath it. I think Venat's really helped along by the different 'steps' we get along the way, too; it might be a bit hard to buy Venat as Hydaelyn, but you can buy the Venat from Elpis as the Venat in the Anamnesis Anyder recording, and that Venat as the Venat from the post-Elpis flashback scene, and the Venat from 'the walk' in that scene as Hydaelyn. Meanwhile with Emet we've basically only seen him at the beginning and end of that journey, and it's... a bit of an ask to see them as the exact same person without some level of player-editorializing and guesswork, we saw very little of what was presumably a long, heavy journey.

There's nothing wrong with that difference, it's just that there is, indeed, a difference there.