TOP cleared with no healers

[Rehayem]

I’m not talking about low level dungeons. I’m talking about everything. I played Aion for 9 years.

Then maybe you didn't play it enough to understand, lack of healers was always a thing, and yet the majority of characters were clerics and chanters. This is coming from me, who mained cleric for years.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Then maybe you didn't play it enough to understand, lack of healers was always a thing, and yet the majority of characters were clerics and chanters. This is coming from me, who mained cleric for years.

Edit: See above edit. Numbers show you are wrong. Also barking up the wrong tree thinking I didn’t play enough to understand. I think you aren’t understanding what a majority means.

Anyway, I agree with the person you responded to. Every trinity-based mmo I’ve ever played people spamming zone chat for tanks and healers, including Aion, and the good ones having their pick of whatever they felt like doing.

[Rehayem]

No, the majority of characters out of 11 classes at the time I left weren’t clerics and chanters. There was a good number of them but they weren’t the majority. For quite a few years ni one even wanted to play Chanter early on.

People wanted geared clerics, and majority of people had their own statics and legions to run things with. I don't know what server you played on, but I've had so many people demand geared clerics for PvP (not PvE, mind you) that it was insane, and if you were not geared enough, you wouldn't be picked. My statement still stands.

[IDontPetLalas]

People wanted geared clerics, and majority of people had their own statics and legions to run things with. I don't know what server you played on, but I've had so many people demand geared clerics for PvP (not PvE, mind you) that it was insane, and if you were not geared enough, you wouldn't be picked. My statement still stands.

In any case, unless I'm reading the link incorrectly, that's showing an EU link with stats for Aion for 2023, in which the stats are fairly meaningless- it's a dead game at this point.

I would agree with Zephr that early on no one had a clue what chanters were good for, and until they got some well deserved class adjustments they a horrid time in PVP. However, depending upon the point in time we're talking about geared clerics were definitely in demand for PVP and were in demand for PVE as well. For PVE clerics definitely had their statics and it wasn't unusual for them to get geared by legions- we had dedicated legion runs for - Besh HM, Padmarashka first clear (that I was in) , boss camping (Omega, Ragnarok,), fort ownership, that would not have been possible without dedicated geared clerics and chanters.

[Rehayem]

In any case, unless I'm reading the link incorrectly, that's showing an EU link with stats for Aion for 2023, in which the stats are fairly meaningless- it's a dead game at this point.

I would agree with Zephr that early on no one had a clue what chanters were good for, and until they got some well deserved class adjustments they a horrid time in PVP. However, depending upon the point in time we're talking about geared clerics were definitely in demand for PVP and were in demand for PVE as well. For PVE clerics definitely had their statics and it wasn't unusual for them to get geared by legions- we had dedicated legion runs for - Besh HM, Padmarashka first clear (that I was in) , boss camping (Omega, Ragnarok,), fort ownership, that would not have been possible without dedicated geared clerics and chanters.

Honestly, gearing in Aion was a total nightmare. With classic releasing, I've played for 3 weeks, realizing that while I hold much love for that game and the memories I made, it's not a game I can fully commit myself to anymore. FFXIV has lots of issues that can be solved, but at least when I played Cleric in Aion, I was actually healing, not spamming 1 dps button for 20 minutes. The issues here are fundamental at best, and one can hope some "good" changes might come in 7.0, but that's just me breathing in copium at this point.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I would agree with Zephr that early on no one had a clue what chanters were good for, and until they got some well deserved class adjustments they a horrid time in PVP. *Snip for lenght*.

I agree the game is dead and for good reason. I pre-ordered Aion in 2009 and they later removed pre-order bonuses from all accounts. I've never seen a game just delete people's pre-order account bonuses in my entire life, as though they didn't pay for them. They also were heavily pay to win - I had top PvP and PvE gear because what I lacked in time I made up for in cold, hard cash. Event after event to get people dumping MONEY into the game with in-game advantages in PvP. If you're gear was strong enough, there was little a lesser-geared person could do to you in PVP. They later changed all gear so that it was useless, and you had to start all over. In the past, you could use the same set of gear for years and while not optimal, it still worked. Don't get me started on removing attack and run speed from gloves and boots and moving it mostly to the horrendous candy system that you had to use limited currency on (or..RL cash) to actually look like your human character rather than a stuffed animal. Aion had so many unforgivable practices to me, I'm glad it's about dead. They deserve it.

That doesn't mean Clerics and Chanters were a "majority" as Rehayem claimed. They never were. As a frequent player I actually regularly tracked the numbers on ALL classes, as I wanted to see who was top level. Certain expansions levelling was really slow so you got a sense of how many were levelling quickly and who they were. While Clerics were common classes, and Chanters were improved from "no one wants to play this" to middle of the road, the two simply never had more players than all the DPS classes combined. They just didn't. Rehayem wants us to believe that in most other MMOs, Healers are more popular than DPS. That's laughable and makes me wonder what MMOs he played that this is the case. It wasn't even the case in Aion, which had more healers than most games.

That's not to say that healing here is perfect. I was MT healer in the #1 world-prog raid guild in EQ2. My healing at times single-handedly saved raids, sometimes being the only person alive out of 24 people due to failed mechanics and recovering for a win. My skill expression mattered. I don't feel like it matters here for 95% of my time healing, and for most content a healer is very replacable with a lot of other players with little to no notice.

[Renathras]

That doesn't mean Clerics and Chanters were a "majority" as Rehayem claimed. They never were. As a frequent player I actually regularly tracked the numbers on ALL classes, as I wanted to see who was top level. Certain expansions levelling was really slow so you got a sense of how many were levelling quickly and who they were. While Clerics were common classes, and Chanters were improved from "no one wants to play this" to middle of the road, the two simply never had more players than all the DPS classes combined. They just didn't. Rehayem wants us to believe that in most other MMOs, Healers are more popular than DPS. That's laughable and makes me wonder what MMOs he played that this is the case. It wasn't even the case in Aion, which had more healers than most games.

Par for the course?

That's not to say that healing here is perfect. I was MT healer in the #1 world-prog raid guild in EQ2. My healing at times single-handedly saved raids, sometimes being the only person alive out of 24 people due to failed mechanics and recovering for a win. My skill expression mattered. I don't feel like it matters here for 95% of my time healing, and for most content a healer is very replacable with a lot of other players with little to no notice.

Agreed.

People aren't even saying that Healing in FFXIV is perfect. People are contesting the issue is Healer design/kits alone or exclusively, pointing out that encounter design and Tank/DPS kits are at least partly to blame, and probably more.

And the idea that any game in MMO history had more Healers than DPSers is insanely laughable. Even if you counted ALL Support (as a fourth role) as "Healer" somehow, it's dubious if that would even hold then.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Par for the course?



Agreed.

People aren't even saying that Healing in FFXIV is perfect. People are contesting the issue is Healer design/kits alone or exclusively, pointing out that encounter design and Tank/DPS kits are at least partly to blame, and probably more.

And the idea that any game in MMO history had more Healers than DPSers is insanely laughable. Even if you counted ALL Support (as a fourth role) as "Healer" somehow, it's dubious if that would even hold then.

Only thing I'd add just for understanding is that Chanter was mostly a hybrid class and a cross between a melee DPS, passive buff bot, and healer. They originally were mostly brought for their passive group buffs, some dps/stun, and backup healing. They were in the Priest class and could spec for more healing, but most people would not choose them to solo-heal anything difficult.

[IDontPetLalas]

I agree the game is dead and for good reason. Aion had so many unforgivable practices to me, I'm glad it's about dead. They deserve it. *snip*

That doesn't mean Clerics and Chanters were a "majority" as Rehayem claimed. They never were. As a frequent player I actually regularly tracked the numbers on ALL classes, as I wanted to see who was top level. Certain expansions levelling was really slow so you got a sense of how many were levelling quickly and who they were. While Clerics were common classes, and Chanters were improved from "no one wants to play this" to middle of the road, the two simply never had more players than all the DPS classes combined. They just didn't. Rehayem wants us to believe that in most other MMOs, Healers are more popular than DPS. That's laughable and makes me wonder what MMOs he played that this is the case. It wasn't even the case in Aion, which had more healers than most games.

That's not to say that healing here is perfect. I was MT healer in the #1 world-prog raid guild in EQ2. My healing at times single-handedly saved raids, sometimes being the only person alive out of 24 people due to failed mechanics and recovering for a win. My skill expression mattered. I don't feel like it matters here for 95% of my time healing, and for most content a healer is very replacable with a lot of other players with little to no notice.

If we ever want to get into your issues with Aion p2W, just going into the the difference between gearing in the subscription years and the F2P years would likely be one complete discussion in and of itself, as well of a number of the issues that you're discussing, such as the events and the candy, they aren't relevant to the class design. I could easily find a number of poor decisions that were made in that game. It had some excellent years, i don't know who the "they" is that you're referring to- if it's NCSoft I understand how you might feel.

I would agree that if we added up the number of clerics and chanters they would not outnumber the total of all the number of DPS classes however they were quite popular , it's hard to say now but maybe clerics and chanter = 50% of the DPS population- that's a very rough estimate and it would depend upon the expansion,

[ZephyrMenodora]

If we ever want to get into your issues with Aion p2W, just going into the the difference between gearing in the subscription years and the F2P years would likely be one complete discussion in and of itself, as well of a number of the issues that you're discussing, such as the events and the candy, they aren't relevant to the class design. I could easily find a number of poor decisions that were made in that game. It had some excellent years, i don't know who the "they" is that you're referring to- if it's NCSoft I understand how you might feel.

I would agree that if we added up the number of clerics and chanters they would not outnumber the total of all the number of DPS classes however they were quite popular , it's hard to say now but maybe clerics and chanter = 50% of the DPS population- that's a very rough estimate and it would depend upon the expansion,

Sorry, by "they" I did mean NCSoft. I feel bad for all the players that loved and spent time in Aion. It was a very amazing and special experience over time that they butchered with greed and some truly bizarre decision making. My first 4/5 years of Aion or so I'll always cherish.